Air France 447
06-06-2009, 08:14 AM
#241
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 273
I am channel surfing and hear a local news broadcast say that a meteor may have brought down the Air France A330...Yeah it's gotten that bad. Said people in the Atlantic (on a ship I guess) saw a meteor or something coming down through the atmosphere. I hope the boxes are found so all of these so called news reporters can for once tell an actual and factual report. There is just way too much speculation in the media.
06-06-2009, 08:26 AM
#242
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,704
They have issued a AD that has been out since TWA to minimize the risks of a center tank explosion by changing fuel pump procedures. Its not easy to install a nitrogen sytem as a retrofit. It is being installed on many new designs now including the 777. Two other Boeing exploded on the ground as a result of center tank ignition. One was not that long ago a 737 in the far east.
06-06-2009, 10:19 AM
#243
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired 121 pilot
Posts: 1,033
CNN report
CNN reporting that: Two bodies have been found from the crash of an Air France plane that disappeared Monday, the Brazilian air force said today. Also, one seat and a suitcase were recovered at sea by a vessel participating in the search, the air force said at a press conference in Recife, Brazil.
06-06-2009, 04:46 PM
#244
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: A380 First Class Cabin ;)
Posts: 12
Two bodies, airline ticket found
Associated Press article:
The Associated Press: 2 bodies, ticket found near Air France crash site
Of significance:
"The French agency investigating the disaster, meanwhile, said airspeed instruments were not replaced as the maker recommended before the plane disappeared in turbulent weather nearly a week ago during a flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris with 228 people aboard."
Since they found things as fragile as an airline ticket in a briefcase I'm assuming that makes it clearer there wasn't a significant explosion with fire/heat.
Given the large area of debris, still indicates that the plane probably broke apart in the air, though.
Now that they've found bodies, they've been able to narrow their search to a more specific area from the sound of it, and the hope to find black boxes seems a bit renewed. Fingers crossed...
The Associated Press: 2 bodies, ticket found near Air France crash site
Of significance:
"The French agency investigating the disaster, meanwhile, said airspeed instruments were not replaced as the maker recommended before the plane disappeared in turbulent weather nearly a week ago during a flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris with 228 people aboard."
Since they found things as fragile as an airline ticket in a briefcase I'm assuming that makes it clearer there wasn't a significant explosion with fire/heat.
Given the large area of debris, still indicates that the plane probably broke apart in the air, though.
Now that they've found bodies, they've been able to narrow their search to a more specific area from the sound of it, and the hope to find black boxes seems a bit renewed. Fingers crossed...
06-06-2009, 05:06 PM
#245
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 17
Easily explained tequila'
Super cooled rain entered one of the static ports and froze blocking the port, whilst for whatever reason the other static port was not obstructed to the same degree.
The autopilot went nuts chasing the needles which is something every pilot has done at some time or another, only this time it was inside a CB super cell and the autopilot was also fighting sever turbulence.
During these manouveres ACARS reported Rudder full lock BEFORE other warnings developed.
The pilots tried to take manual control by which stage it was at an irrecoverable attitude and not at all clear what the correct recovery action was.
Wings over stressed and electrical connections to engine generators severed. By this stage it was tumbling and the last report was the beginning of explosive decompression.
Super cooled rain entered one of the static ports and froze blocking the port, whilst for whatever reason the other static port was not obstructed to the same degree.
The autopilot went nuts chasing the needles which is something every pilot has done at some time or another, only this time it was inside a CB super cell and the autopilot was also fighting sever turbulence.
During these manouveres ACARS reported Rudder full lock BEFORE other warnings developed.
The pilots tried to take manual control by which stage it was at an irrecoverable attitude and not at all clear what the correct recovery action was.
Wings over stressed and electrical connections to engine generators severed. By this stage it was tumbling and the last report was the beginning of explosive decompression.
The ACARS is our best source of infor mation and at 0210Z it identidfied the loss of Pitot static ports.
02:10Z:
Autothrust off
Autopilot off
FBW alternate law
Rudder Travel Limiter Fault
TCAS fault due to antenna fault
Flight Envelope Computation warning
All pitot static ports lost
02:11Z:
Failure of all three ADIRUs \
Failure of gyros of ISIS (attitude information lost)
02:12Z:
ADIRUs Air Data disagree
02:13Z:
Flight Management,
Guidance and Envelope Computer fault PRIM 1 fault SEC 1 fault
02:14Z:
Cabin Pressure Controller fault (cabin vertical speed)
Last edited by Tazjet; 06-06-2009 at 05:08 PM. Reason: unbunched the ACARS summary
06-06-2009, 05:21 PM
#246
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 606
02:10Z:
Autothrust off
Autopilot off
FBW alternate law
Rudder Travel Limiter Fault
TCAS fault due to antenna fault
Flight Envelope Computation warning
All pitot static ports lost
02:11Z:
Failure of all three ADIRUs \
Failure of gyros of ISIS (attitude information lost)
02:12Z:
ADIRUs Air Data disagree
02:13Z:
Flight Management,
Guidance and Envelope Computer fault PRIM 1 fault SEC 1 fault
02:14Z:
Cabin Pressure Controller fault (cabin vertical speed)
Autothrust off
Autopilot off
FBW alternate law
Rudder Travel Limiter Fault
TCAS fault due to antenna fault
Flight Envelope Computation warning
All pitot static ports lost
02:11Z:
Failure of all three ADIRUs \
Failure of gyros of ISIS (attitude information lost)
02:12Z:
ADIRUs Air Data disagree
02:13Z:
Flight Management,
Guidance and Envelope Computer fault PRIM 1 fault SEC 1 fault
02:14Z:
Cabin Pressure Controller fault (cabin vertical speed)
too scary...
06-06-2009, 06:19 PM
#247
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: A380 First Class Cabin ;)
Posts: 12
It really sounds more and more like the already known Pitot problem happened to this flight, and after that, maybe due to bad whether or who knows what, things just degraded from there until there was a crash.
At least they've started finding bodies and debris. Sounds like maybe it's more localized to one area than they thought... with any luck, the black boxes aren't far behind.
At least they've started finding bodies and debris. Sounds like maybe it's more localized to one area than they thought... with any luck, the black boxes aren't far behind.
06-07-2009, 07:02 PM
#250
Snakes & Nape
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: B-767 Captain
Posts: 775
Let's Wait Awhile.....
I had 2 years of French in High School and 3 in college....plus 1,100 in the A-319/320. Now that's been a few years ago and my memory suffers from the occasional short circuit.
I would bet that there were a number of ECAM message being simultaneously generated and as everyone has probably read by now, there were numerous messages being generated to Air France maintenance through the ACARS system...or the like. Since NONE of us yet know what really happened, I'm guessing that they ran into the usual turbulence associated with the ITCZ and a significant amount of convective activity at the same approximate time. We may never know the exact sequence of events but it's probably safe to assume that with some type of pitot-static problem, the autopilot tripping off, execessive speed control issues, etc. whoever was flying the aircraft had their hands full. Literally. Since an airframe breakup is almost a certainity, at some point in time the aircraft probably exceeded VMO and entered uncontrolled flight. Regardless of the sequence of event, their fate was sealed at that point.
To your comment, yes, there should have been an ECAM message generated indicating the system(s) that have malfunctioned. If there are any Airbus drivers out there, I've forgotten if ECAM messages are retrievable in any manner other than through the onboard MX computers.
Hmmm ????
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