ANA JP Express or Air Japan??
02-11-2015, 07:01 AM
#1241
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 309
Oh yea, just to improve your knowledge since all you have is some diluted perception I have never been asked a single thing with regards to fuel, go around, QAR, cost index, etc
Never got any punishment in the 5 years here so far. My pay had increased almost every year and has actually gone up 1600 usd per month this year.
4 legs a day, maybe your thinking of Tianjin Airlines.....not us
Never got any punishment in the 5 years here so far. My pay had increased almost every year and has actually gone up 1600 usd per month this year.
4 legs a day, maybe your thinking of Tianjin Airlines.....not us
02-11-2015, 07:12 AM
#1242
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: B767 FO
Posts: 125
This contract is unique as it provides you with a balance of everything. Days off, money, progression and of course ability to live anywhere you want (absolute gold), oh and we are 90% expat group.
02-11-2015, 07:18 AM
#1243
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 309
Did stress of training cause ex-Aloha pilot to suicide?
Narita Tokyo, JAPAN - "As one door closes, another opens", this was the philosophy Captain Xxxx adopted in April 2008, when he learned the airline he had worked at for more than 20 years was ceasing operations.
Employees were aware Aloha Airlines had been encountering financial turbulence for several months, but when the end came, it arrived suddenly, and most had never really expected the end would be as abruptly and finally as it did.
Nonetheless, Captain Xxxx had planned ahead. He had almost decided that whether Aloha continued, or folded, he would venture offshore anyway, and seek work in lands afar.
His father had worked as a mechanic, in Hawaii, for Japan Airlines, and he had always spoken in glowing terms of JAL's thoughtfulness toward its employees, giving Captain Xxxx the impression that a Japanese airline would be his goal.
Scouring the internet, Captain Xxxx checked out all jobs that were on offer - during this period, a pilot had an almost endless variety of airlines desperately in need of pilots, and especially pilots who were as well qualified as those who had been flying for Aloha.
The two major airlines in Japan, JAL and ANA were both vying not only with each other, but with other Japanese airlines such as Skymark, SkyNet Asia, and Air Do, to try to attract the "best of the best", which was where the Aloha pilots were considered to be.
With log books, licenses, and resume under his arm, Captain Xxxx had thrown his net wide, but selectively.
In the end, he decided to accept a contract with a subsidiary company of All Nippon Airways (ANA), in the belief they offered him the best deal.
Whether it was a difference in the manner in which one Japanese airline and another treated their employees, or a collective change, is not really the issue.
Together with his course mates, including Japanese pilots, Captain Xxxx found the training in Japan highly intensive, and demanding of the pilots on course, in the extreme.
Once a course commenced, pilots are expected to commit themselves absolutely to it.
No provision is made for pilots - Japanese or foreign - to return home to see their families.
Likewise, it is insinuated that to have families visit during such courses - which may run in excess of half a year - is a distraction, and a possible cause for extended training - or failure.
For Japanese pilots, returning home is never more than a couple of hours away, either by plane, or train, such is the excellent system of transportation in Japan.
However, for a foreign pilot, the complexities of travel, and distance, means a very minimum of 3 to 4 days has to be allowed in the event of a sudden emergency.
Neither ANA, nor the other Japanese airlines have been willing to give consideration to allowing extra time off for foreign pilots, to maintain their personal, family relationships.
The stress training in the Japanese airlines incurs on the individual pilot, is difficult to measure, however one should remember that Japan has the highest rate of suicides in the world, for primary and tertiary school students.
Finding it difficult to sleep, Captain Xxxx found he was better able to regulate his circadian rhythms through the use of Ambien (Report on Ambien Side Effects and Usage).
He was able to concentrate better during his ground school classes, and subsequent simulator training and check.
But more importantly, Captain Xxxx was able to drift off at night, when he was alone in his hotel room, missing his family back home.
The contract he worked under was strict - a trip back home would be provided only after he had completed ALL training.
A ticket would be available for his spouse, but not his children.
Tough luck if there was no-one available to take care of them.
In reality, it was a way of discouraging his spouse to come to Japan to "interrupt his progress" - something the contract company in Ireland, through which he was leased out, ascribed to.
But at last, the end was plainly in sight.
By early 2009, Captain Xxxx had successfully passed his numerous ground school examinations, simulator training, and his final JCAB check.
It was a downhill run from here, and a time to relax.
His dad - who, as previously mentioned had worked for Japan Airlines - had come to Tokyo to visit his son, and to enjoy reminiscing of his own times with the kindly, thoughtful Japanese he had worked alongside.
Sitting in the hotel room in Narita, watching television, he had been waiting for his son to awaken from his Ambien-induced sleep, so that they could both go outside together to enjoy Japan.
Apparently still half-asleep, the ex-JAL mechanic saw his son emerge from the bedroom, and walk slowly across the room to the large window.
In an instant, his son was gone.
He had simply kept walking - out, through the window.
For a couple of other ANA pilots who were sitting on the ground floor, the dull thud wasn't something either had heard before, and so it initially didn't attract their immediate attention.
It was only the shrill scream of a woman customer that alerted them to the fact that something out of the ordinary had just happened.
Captain Xxxx died instantly.
As a result of follow-up investigations, the Japanese government determined that the stress Captain Xxxx had been placed under during his training, caused by the airline's refusal to acknowledge personal family obligations, most probably contributed to the final state of mind that caused Captain Xxxx to take the actions he did, which resulted in his untimely death.
All Nippon Airways now freely make travel back home available to all pilots during their conversion courses.
_________________
Narita Tokyo, JAPAN - "As one door closes, another opens", this was the philosophy Captain Xxxx adopted in April 2008, when he learned the airline he had worked at for more than 20 years was ceasing operations.
Employees were aware Aloha Airlines had been encountering financial turbulence for several months, but when the end came, it arrived suddenly, and most had never really expected the end would be as abruptly and finally as it did.
Nonetheless, Captain Xxxx had planned ahead. He had almost decided that whether Aloha continued, or folded, he would venture offshore anyway, and seek work in lands afar.
His father had worked as a mechanic, in Hawaii, for Japan Airlines, and he had always spoken in glowing terms of JAL's thoughtfulness toward its employees, giving Captain Xxxx the impression that a Japanese airline would be his goal.
Scouring the internet, Captain Xxxx checked out all jobs that were on offer - during this period, a pilot had an almost endless variety of airlines desperately in need of pilots, and especially pilots who were as well qualified as those who had been flying for Aloha.
The two major airlines in Japan, JAL and ANA were both vying not only with each other, but with other Japanese airlines such as Skymark, SkyNet Asia, and Air Do, to try to attract the "best of the best", which was where the Aloha pilots were considered to be.
With log books, licenses, and resume under his arm, Captain Xxxx had thrown his net wide, but selectively.
In the end, he decided to accept a contract with a subsidiary company of All Nippon Airways (ANA), in the belief they offered him the best deal.
Whether it was a difference in the manner in which one Japanese airline and another treated their employees, or a collective change, is not really the issue.
Together with his course mates, including Japanese pilots, Captain Xxxx found the training in Japan highly intensive, and demanding of the pilots on course, in the extreme.
Once a course commenced, pilots are expected to commit themselves absolutely to it.
No provision is made for pilots - Japanese or foreign - to return home to see their families.
Likewise, it is insinuated that to have families visit during such courses - which may run in excess of half a year - is a distraction, and a possible cause for extended training - or failure.
For Japanese pilots, returning home is never more than a couple of hours away, either by plane, or train, such is the excellent system of transportation in Japan.
However, for a foreign pilot, the complexities of travel, and distance, means a very minimum of 3 to 4 days has to be allowed in the event of a sudden emergency.
Neither ANA, nor the other Japanese airlines have been willing to give consideration to allowing extra time off for foreign pilots, to maintain their personal, family relationships.
The stress training in the Japanese airlines incurs on the individual pilot, is difficult to measure, however one should remember that Japan has the highest rate of suicides in the world, for primary and tertiary school students.
Finding it difficult to sleep, Captain Xxxx found he was better able to regulate his circadian rhythms through the use of Ambien (Report on Ambien Side Effects and Usage).
He was able to concentrate better during his ground school classes, and subsequent simulator training and check.
But more importantly, Captain Xxxx was able to drift off at night, when he was alone in his hotel room, missing his family back home.
The contract he worked under was strict - a trip back home would be provided only after he had completed ALL training.
A ticket would be available for his spouse, but not his children.
Tough luck if there was no-one available to take care of them.
In reality, it was a way of discouraging his spouse to come to Japan to "interrupt his progress" - something the contract company in Ireland, through which he was leased out, ascribed to.
But at last, the end was plainly in sight.
By early 2009, Captain Xxxx had successfully passed his numerous ground school examinations, simulator training, and his final JCAB check.
It was a downhill run from here, and a time to relax.
His dad - who, as previously mentioned had worked for Japan Airlines - had come to Tokyo to visit his son, and to enjoy reminiscing of his own times with the kindly, thoughtful Japanese he had worked alongside.
Sitting in the hotel room in Narita, watching television, he had been waiting for his son to awaken from his Ambien-induced sleep, so that they could both go outside together to enjoy Japan.
Apparently still half-asleep, the ex-JAL mechanic saw his son emerge from the bedroom, and walk slowly across the room to the large window.
In an instant, his son was gone.
He had simply kept walking - out, through the window.
For a couple of other ANA pilots who were sitting on the ground floor, the dull thud wasn't something either had heard before, and so it initially didn't attract their immediate attention.
It was only the shrill scream of a woman customer that alerted them to the fact that something out of the ordinary had just happened.
Captain Xxxx died instantly.
As a result of follow-up investigations, the Japanese government determined that the stress Captain Xxxx had been placed under during his training, caused by the airline's refusal to acknowledge personal family obligations, most probably contributed to the final state of mind that caused Captain Xxxx to take the actions he did, which resulted in his untimely death.
All Nippon Airways now freely make travel back home available to all pilots during their conversion courses.
_________________
02-11-2015, 03:45 PM
#1244
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 131
For example BMI below 30 for pilots...that's their rule. Now you can simply follow or find another job where that is not an issue. That's very unscientific to just follow the BMI number and not other tests that will paint a clearer picture of one's overall health. So, that's Japan and that's how they run. We wish a lot of things would be done like stateside but if you want to play their game, you gotta follow their rules.
02-11-2015, 04:00 PM
#1245
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 309
Well, that's their game and they make the rules. One has choice to either follow or simply find another employer where they one is more comfortable. For example BMI below 30 for pilots...that's their rule. Now you can simply follow or find another job where that is not an issue. That's very unscientific to just follow the BMI number and not other tests that will paint a clearer picture of one's overall health. So, that's Japan and that's how they run. We wish a lot of things would be done like stateside but if you want to play their game, you gotta follow their rules.
02-11-2015, 06:30 PM
#1246
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 151
We have a cargo hub Okinawa so I would say we have been there a few times.
02-12-2015, 04:14 AM
#1247
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 52
Dear Airspeed 1974
It is obvious you are were not happy, are not happy and will probably never be happy with Japan, Japanese airlines or much of anything associated with Japan. That is fine I am not here to change that.
Given my three years experience with at ANA, I can tell you most people are relatively happy and content. We have plenty of pilots from Skymark, JALways, JAL Express and JAL who are glad they are no longer at their previous respected companies. We have had two captains leave then find out grass isn't always greener on the other side and tried to return to ANA.
Again, I know ANA isn't for everyone. Like The Dom stated, there are plenty of gripes and complaints but tell me a place where there isn't.
Training has some unique challenges but not impossible. Heed the advice from more senior pilots, keep your course and you will be fine. Where most people get into trouble here is attitude and they just can't keep their yap shut. It's sounds like a simple concept yet very challenging to some individuals.
I have found the people at ANA are quite human. I had a death in my family last year and ANA had me home on the first flight the following morning. Another colleague is on leave to care for his ailing mother. And yes, he has his job to return to when he is able. So your statement of:
"Neither ANA, nor the other Japanese airlines have been willing to give consideration to allowing extra time off for foreign pilots, to maintain their personal, family relationships."
.....while maybe true for other carriers, is furthest from the truth at ANA.
A unique quality of the job is we can live where we wish. No moving necessary. I am on days off and it always me to decompress and spend quality time with my wife and family. Plus my last layover was in Okinawa, where I have spent many moons. I have never felt like an outsider nor treated indifferent. But I also don't present myself like an egotistical pr!ck, as some people can very well.
The job isn't for everyone and we all know that. We are also glad for that. The people who are here want to be here. No one wants to spend hours in a cockpit with someone who is bitter towards the company, the country, the culture and life in general.
I am glad you found your place with your Chinese airline.
Take care.
It is obvious you are were not happy, are not happy and will probably never be happy with Japan, Japanese airlines or much of anything associated with Japan. That is fine I am not here to change that.
Given my three years experience with at ANA, I can tell you most people are relatively happy and content. We have plenty of pilots from Skymark, JALways, JAL Express and JAL who are glad they are no longer at their previous respected companies. We have had two captains leave then find out grass isn't always greener on the other side and tried to return to ANA.
Again, I know ANA isn't for everyone. Like The Dom stated, there are plenty of gripes and complaints but tell me a place where there isn't.
Training has some unique challenges but not impossible. Heed the advice from more senior pilots, keep your course and you will be fine. Where most people get into trouble here is attitude and they just can't keep their yap shut. It's sounds like a simple concept yet very challenging to some individuals.
I have found the people at ANA are quite human. I had a death in my family last year and ANA had me home on the first flight the following morning. Another colleague is on leave to care for his ailing mother. And yes, he has his job to return to when he is able. So your statement of:
"Neither ANA, nor the other Japanese airlines have been willing to give consideration to allowing extra time off for foreign pilots, to maintain their personal, family relationships."
.....while maybe true for other carriers, is furthest from the truth at ANA.
A unique quality of the job is we can live where we wish. No moving necessary. I am on days off and it always me to decompress and spend quality time with my wife and family. Plus my last layover was in Okinawa, where I have spent many moons. I have never felt like an outsider nor treated indifferent. But I also don't present myself like an egotistical pr!ck, as some people can very well.
The job isn't for everyone and we all know that. We are also glad for that. The people who are here want to be here. No one wants to spend hours in a cockpit with someone who is bitter towards the company, the country, the culture and life in general.
I am glad you found your place with your Chinese airline.
Take care.
02-12-2015, 06:51 AM
#1248
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 309
Dear Airspeed 1974 It is obvious you are were not happy, are not happy and will probably never be happy with Japan, Japanese airlines or much of anything associated with Japan. That is fine I am not here to change that. Given my three years experience with at ANA, I can tell you most people are relatively happy and content. We have plenty of pilots from Skymark, JALways, JAL Express and JAL who are glad they are no longer at their previous respected companies. We have had two captains leave then find out grass isn't always greener on the other side and tried to return to ANA. Again, I know ANA isn't for everyone. Like The Dom stated, there are plenty of gripes and complaints but tell me a place where there isn't. Training has some unique challenges but not impossible. Heed the advice from more senior pilots, keep your course and you will be fine. Where most people get into trouble here is attitude and they just can't keep their yap shut. It's sounds like a simple concept yet very challenging to some individuals. I have found the people at ANA are quite human. I had a death in my family last year and ANA had me home on the first flight the following morning. Another colleague is on leave to care for his ailing mother. And yes, he has his job to return to when he is able. So your statement of: "Neither ANA, nor the other Japanese airlines have been willing to give consideration to allowing extra time off for foreign pilots, to maintain their personal, family relationships." .....while maybe true for other carriers, is furthest from the truth at ANA. A unique quality of the job is we can live where we wish. No moving necessary. I am on days off and it always me to decompress and spend quality time with my wife and family. Plus my last layover was in Okinawa, where I have spent many moons. I have never felt like an outsider nor treated indifferent. But I also don't present myself like an egotistical pr!ck, as some people can very well. The job isn't for everyone and we all know that. We are also glad for that. The people who are here want to be here. No one wants to spend hours in a cockpit with someone who is bitter towards the company, the country, the culture and life in general. I am glad you found your place with your Chinese airline. Take care.
I agree with what you said except for one thing which I have been trying to get across to all of you. We all know you need to show up with a glass half full, keep the ego in check, etc. However in my case as well as he case of quite a few others at Jair if you get the wrong instructor your length at the company can be predetermined and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.
No matter how low you lay, play the game, etc.
I really do hope that you guys are happy there. I am just speaking from my own personal experience. And trust me, after having worked in 12 countries and been to 92 I def know how to play the game.
02-12-2015, 10:18 AM
#1249
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 747 captain
Posts: 1,562
"Dominican, please REREAD what I wrote. I have been an expat for TEN years and I am pretty sure I have worked in more countries than you."
"Never got any punishment in the 5 years here so far. My pay had increased almost every year and has actually gone up 1600 usd per month this year."
"And trust me, after having worked in 12 countries and been to 92 I def know how to play the game."
In the other 5 years you claim to have been an expat you have worked in 11 other countries then? Is that as a pilot or a hooker?
Off to my ignore box you go with the other trolls...! Zero credibility!
This message is hidden because airspeed1974 is on your ignore list.
"Never got any punishment in the 5 years here so far. My pay had increased almost every year and has actually gone up 1600 usd per month this year."
"And trust me, after having worked in 12 countries and been to 92 I def know how to play the game."
In the other 5 years you claim to have been an expat you have worked in 11 other countries then? Is that as a pilot or a hooker?
Off to my ignore box you go with the other trolls...! Zero credibility!
This message is hidden because airspeed1974 is on your ignore list.
02-12-2015, 03:07 PM
#1250
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 309
"Dominican, please REREAD what I wrote. I have been an expat for TEN years and I am pretty sure I have worked in more countries than you." "Never got any punishment in the 5 years here so far. My pay had increased almost every year and has actually gone up 1600 usd per month this year." "And trust me, after having worked in 12 countries and been to 92 I def know how to play the game." In the other 5 years you claim to have been an expat you have worked in 11 other countries then? Is that as a pilot or a hooker? Off to my ignore box you go with the other trolls...! Zero credibility! This message is hidden because airspeed1974 is on your ignore list.
Off to my ignore box you go with the other trolls...! Zero credibility! This message is hidden because airspeed1974 is on your ignore list.
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