Michaelgg13

Hi,
My name is Michael as you can see by the username. But I am here because I am planning on going into a career in aviation. I will be a senior in high school this 2011-2012 year. I have been planning on the ATP aviation degree program at the long island location. I have done my research and have heard good things about this location. But it is also 6 hours away from my hometown and my girlfriend of 3 years also plays a big factor in my decision. My choices after graduation is the ATP aviation degree option but my other option would be to stay here and get my PPL at a local airport about 15 mins away while getting a 2 year degree at a community college just upnthe road from the local flight school. And then after finishing the ppl and 2 yr there go ahead and do the 90 day fast track program at the ATP long island location. Which would be the best and cheapest option to take. The rates at the local airport are about $110 an hour. Or should I just go ahead and go the whole way with ATP. Thanks for any input and sorry for the long message!!!

EDIT: I just went over some numbers quick. I would save around $46,000 if I were to get my ppl and 2 yr then do the fast track.

HSLD

ATP offers degrees? What is the degree in and who is it accredited by?

OK, now for some tough love. Read this forum. Use the search feature, and read some more. What you're asking has been answered so many times - it's all here; the good, the bad, and mostly the ugly.

The punch line is "why do want to spend tens of thousands of dollars (possibly $100K) for a job that starts at $19K per year with little opportunity to progress?".

We all know how much you've wanted to fly since you were a kid, it's all you can think about and all that. Trust us, we've been there. However, there really are no more "carriers in aviation". Again, read this forum.

If you want to learn to fly, get your ratings, it really is a blast! Just do yourself a favor and do WAY more research before you convince yourself that you'd like pursue commercial aviation as a job.

I realize this sounds bitter, it's not. If you're still hell bent on flying, do yourself a favor and read all you can about the industry until the new flight time experience rules are published. At least then, you'll know what long odds you're up against.

lstorm2003

Michael,

Well the first thing I wonder is about your financial situation. Do you have a well-off family that is paying for your education or are you planning on financing it? If you are financing it, I would not recommend you to go to an "academy" style school like ATP. It will put you into a huge hole debt wise. You can get the same certificates at a local flight school for 1/2 the cost.

The main down-side to those academy style schools (like ATP, Flight Safety Academy, or AeroSim, etc) is that they are VERY expensive. A couple advantages they have are that they have very structured programs which work very well for some people, and usually excellent ground school programs. They also usually 'guarantee' employment (although, not that anything is wrong with it, but this usually means as an instructor working for them when you finish your training).

Now I don't know how much you know about flight training but there are two different ways the FAA allows flight schools to train you. Under what is known as Part 61, or Part 141. I believe that all the academy schools work under Part 141. This means there is a structured syllabus that you will work from that has been approved by the FAA. You will have stage checks and check rides and it will all be quite structured. The other option is Part 61. Some of the smaller flight schools may work under Part 61. This is not as structured, the curriculum is usually set by your individual instructor. You don't have to learn in a specific order, or follow a specific plan like you do in Part 141, but at the end you will need to take a check ride and pass an oral exam with the FAA or with an FAA "DE" (Designated Examiner). In the end, either way the certificate you will get is the same. One advantage that comes to mind with a smaller flight school is that you actually may end up with a much more experienced instructor that way. Usually the instructors at the academy schools are all recent grads themselves (except for the ground instructors, which are usually excellent).

Now, you mentioned the possibility of getting your PPL at the local airport which is not an academy type school I assume. Many smaller flight schools can still teach under Part 141 which is more structured, so you may want to ask about that. Not that I think anything is wrong with Part 61, in fact I've done all my training under Part 61, but you do have to be more individually focused towards a goal. I do not know this for certain, but I suspect that the completion rate is much higher for part 141 students than it is for part 61 students.

You should take a flight lesson with the local flight school and talk to them and their instructors about their program, and ask if they offer 141 training or not.. You should also spend a day and visit the academy you are considering to attend.... Talk to other current and past students to see what they think...

So lets see, how can I sum it up... Let me try to compare my humble opinion of the advantages / disadvantages of a Local Flight School (Local) or an Academy School (Academy)

Cost? Advantage: Local
Ground School Training? Advantage: Academy
Simulators and Classroom Equipment? Advantage: Academy
Highly Experienced Flight Instructors? Advantage: Local
High Completion Rate? Advantage: Academy
Job Placement? Advantage: Academy
Number of Aircraft in Fleet? Advantage: Academy
Training Style (highly structured Academy vs more flexible local flight school)? Advantage: Neither - both styles have their pros and cons

I hope my rambling on and on didn't confuse you even more...

USMCFLYR

Here is a thought on the personal situation Michael and has nothing to do with training P61 or P141.

If you are already concerned that a 6 hour time difference is going to make or break your relationship with a girlfriend of 3 years, then I would suggest that a career in the professional pilot area might not be the best for you. I have no idea what percentage might be, but I'd be willing to bet that a *large* majority of professional pilot positions (ones that a person could actually plan on making a life of) involve a considerable time spent away from home. Just something to throw into the back of your thought process. the more you read on this forum, the more that you will find that many people's major concern is their "quality of life", and there are plenty of impediments to QOL in this profession. If you are *serious* with this girl, have you actually sat down and had a heart to heart about such things?

Btw - I was lucky *back in the day* and ended up training at a P141 program after starting out P61 for slightly more than I would have paid if I had continued down the original road. I was one who benefited much more from the structured syllabus of ground and flight training found at the P141 programs and later saw that it closely matched the military training program I completed. as for where you get your rating from; many on here will tell you that future employers don't really care where you received your flight training (unless it was from Uncle Sam), but the network built from some of the higher profile schools can be quite useful, the question looms, is the extra cost worth it? If you go the 'Academy' route, you will incur a mound of debt that will ride you for years to come!

USMCFLYR

Michaelgg13

Yes I have talked to her and she is very supportive of what I want to do with my life and understands the time I would be away from home.

And for the rest of the great replies I believe the flight school is in part 61 but there is a flight school at a bigger airport about an hour away that teaches both part 61 and part 141 there website link is: Rochester Air Center

And I absolutely do love aviation. I have ever since I was a kid I have spent $3000 plus decking out a pc and getting controls for a flight sim. Specifically x-plane 9. I have taken 1 intro lesson at that local airport and absolutely loved it. I wanted to start out as regional and maybe move To freight. But I will keep researching. Thank you all from your help and kindness.

USMCFLYR

Then if the best deal happens to be 6 hours away - you should not let that stop you. Right now you say that it is a big factor in your decision.
Since you are in high school, I have to ask. Have you ever spent a significant amount of time away for your girlfriend in those three years?
To me.....6 hours is nothing and it would seem that a person as intent on a career as you say you are, and with a GF who professes support of said career, letting it play such a factor in one of the FIRST decisions you have to make makes me want to suggest caution to you.

I know I seem to be harping on this fact, but I have quite a few years dealing with relationships and the young men and women while they explore the long distance relationship road and often the tough questions haven't been addressed often leading to less desirable outcomes.

You are wanting to embark in a career that stresses realtionships in general. No one is trying to talk to you out of anything here (yet - that will come with a few more posts I'm sure), but going into the situation with your eyes wide open is just as important as the enthusiasm and passion that you will need to make it through the process.

USMCFLYR

galaxy flyer

Have you considered a military career? They'll pay for your education and teach you to fly. The state ANG programs are also good--tuition benefits for state schools and the state ANG might select you for UPT.

I guarantee that all the discussions in the world are nothing compared to the first trip away for weeks or months at college.

GF

USMCFLYR

Nope - but one of my friends at OCS was a newlywed.
After OCS, and during TBS, I spent quite a bit of time with them at there home since I was a barracks rat.
She told me one time that she had NO IDEA of how much time he would spend away from the house prior to marrying him as they had never discussed it and she had no family in the family and had never been exposed to the lifestyle as such. I had to chuckle since we were still in the beginning stages of training when we had this discussion. I am happy to report though that as of about 15 years later they were still happily married and doing fine!
Postscript: she would have appreciated the talk. And we haven't even broached the subject of college!!

USMCFLYR

Airbum

go to your local school get your 2 years of college, transfer to state college and finish up flying with ATP if you need to .

globalexpress

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