PearlPilot

I seem to have trouble in performing the 180 degree power off landing. My instructor demonstrated it a couple of times over the last few weeks and did an outstanding job. Soon after he cut the power, I tend to take my time in making a very shallow turn (shallower than normal) towards base and final and end up not making it. I don't have trouble with maintaining best glide, getting the gear down, and doing all the troubleshooting and securing engine procedures. I am having a hard time doing s-turns, slips, and steep turns (to lose altitude) below 500 feet AGL. I feel like since the margin for error is very slim at low altitude, I would rather not risk it. I recall a recent article published by Barry Schiff in AOPA Pilot magazine. He wrote that depending on altitude and proficiency, a pilot should think about making a steep (45 degree) turn towards the departure runway if the engine were to fail on take off. Any suggestions are appreciated. Like any other maneuver, I hope that practice and familiarity with what's occurring aerodynamically would help. I.E. Keep the angle of attack low, airspeed well above stall etc.

Walkeraviator

Which airplane are you flying? The Arrow? If so, when are you putting teh gear down?

PearlPilot

Comanche. Well, right at or below the recommended gear down speed. It does not seem to be the problem. I think I should just start turning toward the runway/landing sight, at the moment the engine "fails."

USMCFLYR

Sounds like you need to get a few goes at the runway where the final outcome isn't in jeopardy (at least in your mind). Once you get comfortable with this site picture you can start moving the pattern out to one more closely resembling your CFI's.

USMCFLYR

WalkOfShame

Try turning right away and see what happens. This maneuver really just takes repetition and practice. Also, make sure you understand what the winds are doing. Ask yourself: How much headwind do I have? How much crosswind? Are the winds different at pattern altitude than on the runway (most likely)? You'll need to adjust when you turn and how aggressive you fly towards the runway in order to make it. Unfortunately, all these conditions can change on an hourly basis. I don't have any experience on the comanche, but if its like the arrow, I can imagine it starts to sink rather quickly once the power is taken out. I found in the arrow (gear down, prop high rpm) that if I turn pretty much right away and aim for the numbers (unless the winds are completely calm out) I could get a good idea of my ground track and then make adjustments (turn back out for more of a base, side-slip, shallow s-turns, etc.). But like I said, it really just takes practice and repetition. Good luck!

dustrpilot

I was taught that once you turn final to line up your landing spot with a place on the windshield and keep it there. If you do that you'll land there, but you may have to slip to achieve that.

Cubdriver

You are trying to put us in the airplane with you to see this using a 100-word post which is kind of tough. It sounds to me as if you are afraid to aggressively handle the airplane to put it where you want it because you are afraid it will stall. You may not know when it will stall plus your instructor has you running the emergency checklist when you should not.

1. Take the airplane out to 3000 AGL and do coordinated, power-off high bank angle turning stalls. You will find the airplane stalls at a reasonable airspeed in turns less than 60 degrees of bank. 60 degrees = 2 gs and it only adds a small margin to the stall speed. There may be a table in the POH telling what the stall speed is in various banks.

2. You do not need to run the off-airport emergency checklist to do it to standard. It is not an off-airport landing simulation. Why he is having you do this is questionable, because it is neither required nor recommended at less than pattern altitude for obvious reasons. Confront him on it and ask what wants you to add this step if it is not listed in the PTS or any of the maneuver handbooks. It is not an emergency simulation for an off-airport landing. It is a power-off 180 to landing to develop skill and accuracy. It does have application to engine out emergencies, but that is not the primary purpose of the exercise, it is to develop landing accuracy without help from the prop.

3. If your instructor insists on your adding an off-airport emergency checklist to this maneuver he is wrong but if he insists, then get the checklist down so well you can do it in a hot second and then get back to what you are really supposed to be doing- landing accurately. With some practice you should be able to do both.

4. Never drop the gear until the runway is made. If your instructor is insisting on a GUMPS and gear-down at some early time, he is simply wrong about that. You are wasting valuable glide range with the excess drag and it is way more sensible to drop the gear when the runway is safely made. There is no official mandate as to when you must drop the gear on this maneuver- you can drop the gear whenever you feel it is safe. All you need to do on the checkride is say "I am waiting to extend the gear because it reduces gliding range and I intend to extend the gear when I have the runway made".

AbortAbortAbort

Agreed with what basically everyone had said. I don't know how the glide is in a Comanche (though I would not expect much if a Saratoga is any judge), but I typically turned for the threshold, wind would carry me just a bit out, a square turn onto final so I was rolling out over the numbers then an easy glide to the thousand footers.

Your experience (and examiner, and instructor) will vary.

Walkeraviator

Im with cubdriver on his last point. I did my commerical partly in an arrow and partly in a Cardinal RG.... The cardinal glides like a champ, but the Arrow was a brick with no power. If the comanche is like the arrow, power to idle then immediately turn toward the runway... And dont put the gear down until landing is assured. The PTS simply state syou must be in landing configuration at touchdown... nowhere does it require you to put teh gear down right away. All that drag will kill your glide ratio.

PearlPilot

Thanks for the responses. Cub, you are absolutely right. Coming fresh out of the instrument world, I am finding it difficult to transition to aggressive maneuvering. Add 45 degrees to low altitude, and yes sure I am definitely not comfortable with this. The instructor did tell me that he doesn't encourage such maneuvering, but the objective is to turn to the landing sight immediately and do the best you can to make it to the field (S-turns, slips etc.) instead of wasting valuable altitude by making shallow turns. Also I am at fault for running the checklist. He said nothing of using one, but it was my thinking that the BGUMPS checklist has to be done to ensure a safe outcome, emergency or not. I think I should practice steep turns in general at altitude and get a feel for the aircraft. Yes it does sink like a rock.