f16jetmech

Ok so the right seat program opportunity at Simuflight has opened up for me. Now i have a questions regarding this and logbook stuff. Does any of this count towards total time or towards multi total time? Some say yes some say no... And even if it is all legal to log, would a regional frown upon this and not count it towards meeting their minimums?

Thanks in advance

rickair7777

What are we talking about here? Sitting right seat in actual airplane?

What type of airplane, and what type of operation?

Or does this have to do with a simulator?

You can use time from a properly certified FTD or SIM for various approved FAA training purposes. You may even be able to log it as total time if you use the verbatim wording of the FAR's.

FTD/PCADT can be used for instrument training and currency.

Level D with visuals and motion can be used for T/O, landings and visual maneuvers also...pretty much everything you can do in a real airplane. Many such sims cannot do circle-to-land however...the visuals are not wide enough to allow you to look over your shoulder.

But as far as employers are concerned flight time / total time means real airplane time (ie it must have wings, engine(s), and actually fly in the air). Sim time cannot be used to meet employer hiring requirements unless they specifically state otherwise. About the only time this is commonly allowed is for instrument time, although some airlines want actual instrument experience.

I don't know of any US airlines which will accept ME time in a Sim.

I would not log that with your real airplane time, it will get you sent home early from an interview.

I hope you're not paying for this...if you are getting paid, and cannot get a job flying real airplanes, it might be worth doing but I wouldn't do it instead of real airplanes.

f16jetmech

No definitely not paying. Its the simuflite right seat program with the level D sims at DFW. After so much time there they give you a PIC type. But i don't know how valuable a PIC type with only so much TT and no time IN type is, nor how far it will get you. It was just an opportunity i was considering and wanted to get some information on it. That answers my questions though, thanks rick.

USMCFLYR

I just went through SimuFlite with two right-seat guys. They were both quite young with little experience, but they sit through the entire ground school and one of them went through the entire simulator course with the other guy in class. He said that after 40 sessions they got a SIC qual and after 80 sessions got a PIC qual. The time might not help you that much, and the PIC qual without any time in the airplane might not help that much, but the opportunity to network with the people coming through the multiple programs has to be worth it! If nothing else - you are bartering your time for training / qualifications.

I can put you in contact with the guy that just went through if you want me too.

USMCFLYR

f16jetmech

The networking aspects are huge and i know i have the people skills to land a job at least eventually. Heres my thought though, i'm very interested in part 121 ops. Eventually i want to go corporate, but not right now. With that said, do you think it would be wise to go corporate, then go regionals? Or do you think there is any chance to go corporate than go majors? I'm not gonna land a corporate job, then take a massive paycut and go to the regionals, just to have 10+ years ahead of me before i can start looking at the majors.

Recap: Go to simuflite and try to land a corporate job, or nix the whole thing and go strictly 121?

rickair7777

Might not be a bad thing, are you getting paid or just getting "paid" with the type?

Turbojet types are worth some money, so if we are talking a few weeks or even a couple months it might be worth it even if it's no-pay.

If you are airline bound, the type will help in that shows you are a good training risk. But you will still need the competitive flight times.

If you are corporate bound, again you will still need 1000+ hours to get insured but having a type could seal the deal. Of course I would carefully consider WHICH type to get (cough, cough Citation), assuming you have a choice. A G-V type might be cool but will probably not help you get a job at the entry level.

If you don't have a flying job, might as well do it. But I wouldn't quit a flying job in this climate.

You have to make the decision corporate vs. 121, nobody else can really tell you than answer on that.

If you get into corporate flying and get successfully established, it would not make sense to take a regional job (unless the economy is really bad, in which case many corporate pilots just work non-aviation jobs). 121 is more stable as far as actually having a job, once you get some seniority.

USMCFLYR

They don't get paid. Like you said - they are paid with a type. The one guy in my class was a CFI with 600 hrs. He was initially scheduled for the BeechJet right-seat program and was changed to the King Air the night before class started. It is the busiest program they said with 22 hours of simulating a day!

USMCFLYR

f16jetmech

I'm in a very similar situation with a little over 500 hours CFI. I have a good job at american flyers in dallas so im not looking to leave that at all. I want so bad to jump into this thing for the experience and i would have a blast.... but im not so sure its the wisest for my desired career path. I might just do it for a hobby more than anything. I love aviation and anything aviation. The hardest part will be the 2 weeks of INDOC and ground school stuff and no pay.

I know this is probably a big no... but any shot that a regional might lower the multi time or TT if a guy has this kinda stuff on his resume? I mean it has to be worth something.... even an SIC type (which i know doesnt mean much) has to show the airline that i can handle this stuff and i have a leg up on most guys coming into the regionals. Am i right?

DSflyer05

Here's my take on the whole thing. First of all it doesn't matter where you want to be in 10 years, corporate or 121. At this point of your aviation career all you need is experience, i.e. FMS, glass cockpit, CRM, advanced system knowledge etc. All of those thing will get sitting right seat in the sim. Not to mention meeting people from all over the world who are potential employers. Airlines will still be interested in you once you get their mins and you will have more to offer them as compared the other 500 hour guys who have only been flying pipers if that's the route you decide you want to go.
You said you already have a CFI, so keep instructing and working at simuflight to get experience and make contacts along the way.
As far as program. Take the best airplane they offer you. You will sit in the sim longer and build more time as a CFI for a GV job as compared to a king air but it will pay off in the future believe me, I have seen it happen.
Take my word on this i started working at flight safety in Wilmington Delaware once I got my commercial multi on the hawker program. All my other friends didn't want to do the program because they didn't want to fly a computer and now most of them don't have there regional jobs anymore and I got a job flying a hawker 800xp and a Gulfstream 5 with a part 91 corporation making 4 times what the regional guys start at by making contacts with people I worked with in the sim. And by the way try to get into flight safety Dallas, pay starts around $15/hr! Good luck, let me know if I can answer any questions you may have.

f16jetmech

Thanks for all the great advice guys... really appreciate you taking the time to type and help me out. I plan on doing the same whenever i am in a position to help guide someone.