rickair7777

BTDT. You are exactly right, take matters into your own hands...sooner rather than later.

rickair7777

The program they are discussing involves sitting right seat in the SIM for paying customers who are training in the left seat. You do not get paid, but after so many hours they will train you for a PIC type rating.

Since SIC's in non-121 don't need types, there are more PC trainees than SIC trainees, so they just need to fill the seat.

Twin Wasp

BZZZT The F/O on any aircraft certificated with a minimum flight crew of at least two is required to have a type in international ops. DC-3, Hawker, Seven Four, 91, 121, 125, 135, it doesn't matter.

rickair7777

True for international ops, that's an ICAO requirement for any flying, but I was referring to the US domestic environment. There's a lot of domestic 91/135 operations which don't type their SIC's, but rather just provide the minimum FAR mandated training in-house. That's why there are more people paying for PIC types than SIC types.

Domestic-only 121 operators don't have to type their SIC's either, but 121 training is equivalent to an SIC type anyway so that's just a matter of semantics.

Twin Wasp

Yes but 61.55 says 135 or 91K SIC training is enough for a SIC type. I can't imagine you could get out of Flight Safety or Simuflite with something that wouldn't count for an SIC type.

rickair7777

I agree, but more folks are paying for PIC types than SIC types, which is why they are bribing kids to sit right seat.

Even 61.55 training is basis for an SIC type, but you don't need to send someone to flight safety to accomplish that, you can easily do it in house (unless your insurance requires a more thoroughly trained SIC).

Also a lot of operators just give all their pilots a PIC type, even if they are initially flying in the right seat.

USMCFLYR

I think this is a little harsh actually.
The "kid" I was in class with was getting a heck of a deal in my opinion.
21 years old, getting experience that many won't for years and years and making contacts that could lead to much better things in the (near) future.

USMCFLYR

FlyerJosh

I think a bit of perspective is needed here...

As a low time pilot, ANY experience with larger aircraft (even if it's only level D sim time) will add to your resume.

What you need to ask yourself is WHAT DO I WANT TO DO WITH MY CAREER? If your ultimate goal is to fly for the airlines, I'd say keep working in a job that allows you to build actual flight time, even if it's in a 172. Get your TT up, apply to a regional and fly the line.

That said, if you want to fly corporate or charter, you're probably better off doing one of these right seat gigs. I believe that FSI has a similar program, but they actually pay some of their folks to do the same thing.

The networking you can do as a seat-sub in a simulator is pretty incredible, especially if you conduct yourself in a professional manner. You can also learn a LOT from seeing people from a wide variety of operators and experience.

Today's modern sims are very impressive. The last event I did was my CL604 type at FSI Tucson. They had just upgraded the visuals... even after over 250 of "flight time" in sims, the realism blew my mind. Blowing sand and snow, radio towers on the visuals that had strobe lights and proper markings/paint (and even guy wires!). That said, sim time isn't going to subsititute for actual experience.

Mr Immlemann

How do you go about finding open positions for SIC in a LR or something of that nature. Does that usually taking an internal rec. Once Im done with the ratings, this is something I might be interested in.

Mr Immlemann

Found it. Just saw on FSI the openings for SIC/intern.