NEED ADVICE! 26yo female w/PPL & stable job
08-06-2006, 07:00 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 57
NEED ADVICE! 26yo female w/PPL & stable job
Hello all- I would like some career advice.
I am a 26 year-old college graduate (BA in International Studies) and US citizen. I also have my private pilots license (which I receieved 2 yrs ago after studying at an FBO back in my hometown last summer.) I currently have a total of almost 110 total flight hours and 16 ME hours in a Piper Seminole. Currently, I live and work full time in Tokyo, Japan(in a field totally unrelated to aviation). My career goal is to become a commercial airline or business jet pilot, and hopefully fly international routes one day. Someday I also want to build my own plane. However I only had enough money to learn to fly after beginning to work full time, or else I would have purused aviation much sooner. I have wanted to be a pilot as long as I can remember, but it always seemed far too expensive to consider realistically, and so I am kind of a late-starter.
Finally achieving my childhood dream to learn to fly made me realize how very much the dream to be a professional pilot is alive inside me, and so now I am planning to continue on through the ratings in the hopes that I can realize this dream. However, since there are no (financially realistic) civilian flight training opportunities here in Japan, this means that I will need to quit my job and train elsewhere. (No FBOs / schools in Japan, next to no GA, and C172 rental is upwards of $350/hr in this country!) In other words, unlike in the US, it is impossible for me to continue working my day job while flight training, because it is too expensive to train in Japan. However, I have a stable job which pays more than probably a 4th or 5th year FO's salary, so I am in a position to save money (relative to living expenses in pricey Tokyo). I have already saved up 30K for flight training, but that is not enough yet to get through the rest of my ratings (as far as I am aware). Currently I can only fly when on vacation from work- ie. outside of Japan, in blocks 2x per year.
I am considering:
A) going to ATP for the 90 day program
B) going back to my own FBO which is pricey but solid, and will take longer.
C) taking your advice if you have any good advice to give me!!
D) the military?? The cutoff is 27, right? But I wear contacts now (vision corrected to 20/20, but without them I can't see a thing. I know very little about the military...)
E) flight training in Australia or Europe would also be okay for me as I have citizenship.
By the way, I live in a world completely and utterly removed from aviation... as I said there is no GA here so there are very very few people with whom to exhange opinions and ask for advice. I would appreciate any advice I can get.
Thank you,
Avanti in Tokyo
I am a 26 year-old college graduate (BA in International Studies) and US citizen. I also have my private pilots license (which I receieved 2 yrs ago after studying at an FBO back in my hometown last summer.) I currently have a total of almost 110 total flight hours and 16 ME hours in a Piper Seminole. Currently, I live and work full time in Tokyo, Japan(in a field totally unrelated to aviation). My career goal is to become a commercial airline or business jet pilot, and hopefully fly international routes one day. Someday I also want to build my own plane. However I only had enough money to learn to fly after beginning to work full time, or else I would have purused aviation much sooner. I have wanted to be a pilot as long as I can remember, but it always seemed far too expensive to consider realistically, and so I am kind of a late-starter.
Finally achieving my childhood dream to learn to fly made me realize how very much the dream to be a professional pilot is alive inside me, and so now I am planning to continue on through the ratings in the hopes that I can realize this dream. However, since there are no (financially realistic) civilian flight training opportunities here in Japan, this means that I will need to quit my job and train elsewhere. (No FBOs / schools in Japan, next to no GA, and C172 rental is upwards of $350/hr in this country!) In other words, unlike in the US, it is impossible for me to continue working my day job while flight training, because it is too expensive to train in Japan. However, I have a stable job which pays more than probably a 4th or 5th year FO's salary, so I am in a position to save money (relative to living expenses in pricey Tokyo). I have already saved up 30K for flight training, but that is not enough yet to get through the rest of my ratings (as far as I am aware). Currently I can only fly when on vacation from work- ie. outside of Japan, in blocks 2x per year.
I am considering:
A) going to ATP for the 90 day program
B) going back to my own FBO which is pricey but solid, and will take longer.
C) taking your advice if you have any good advice to give me!!
D) the military?? The cutoff is 27, right? But I wear contacts now (vision corrected to 20/20, but without them I can't see a thing. I know very little about the military...)
E) flight training in Australia or Europe would also be okay for me as I have citizenship.
By the way, I live in a world completely and utterly removed from aviation... as I said there is no GA here so there are very very few people with whom to exhange opinions and ask for advice. I would appreciate any advice I can get.
Thank you,
Avanti in Tokyo
Last edited by avanti; 08-07-2006 at 06:29 AM.
08-06-2006, 08:47 PM
#2
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,391
As you are finding out, most of the world has little to no general aviation infrastructure. This makes training very difficult in most places except perhaps Australia and obviously the US. Many countries have pilot training programs funded by the government or their national airlines, and many send their student pilots to the US to take advantage of the weather, open airspace, and relatively low cost.
If you are considering military, you need to do a LOT of research. To fly fixed-wing in the US military you would need to be an officer, which would require 1) Citizenship 2) Accredited 4 year degree 3) Pretty good vision (20/20 for the navy). You can get your vision improved by laser surgery, but there are many, many limitations on that. Age limit varies between 28 and early thirties, depending on service and need. But it would probably take a year to get accepted...
If you want to pursue civilian flying, you should try to figure out WHERE you want to live and work before you do training. If you want to be in the US, then US FAA training is probably what you want. If you want to get a job in Europe, you will need JAA licenses, which are more difficult and expensive to obtain. If you want to work in Asia or the third world as an expatriate, either JAA or FAA should work for most carriers (Australian licenses are similar to JAA, IIRC).
In the US, there are many, many schools that are out to rip you off. Common advice you will hear on this forum is to find a reputable FBO that can CONSISTENTLY provide training at the pace you desire. ATP has a decent reputation, unlike most of the other large schools (I have only a little experience with ATP).
Also make sure you understand the challenges facing those involved in the airline industry today. It's not limited to the US...Ryanair is a real turd when it comes to how they treat their people. Asian airline still seem to treat pilots reasonably well.
Read some of the old threads on this forum, most of this stuff has been beaten to death here already...
Good Luck!
If you are considering military, you need to do a LOT of research. To fly fixed-wing in the US military you would need to be an officer, which would require 1) Citizenship 2) Accredited 4 year degree 3) Pretty good vision (20/20 for the navy). You can get your vision improved by laser surgery, but there are many, many limitations on that. Age limit varies between 28 and early thirties, depending on service and need. But it would probably take a year to get accepted...
If you want to pursue civilian flying, you should try to figure out WHERE you want to live and work before you do training. If you want to be in the US, then US FAA training is probably what you want. If you want to get a job in Europe, you will need JAA licenses, which are more difficult and expensive to obtain. If you want to work in Asia or the third world as an expatriate, either JAA or FAA should work for most carriers (Australian licenses are similar to JAA, IIRC).
In the US, there are many, many schools that are out to rip you off. Common advice you will hear on this forum is to find a reputable FBO that can CONSISTENTLY provide training at the pace you desire. ATP has a decent reputation, unlike most of the other large schools (I have only a little experience with ATP).
Also make sure you understand the challenges facing those involved in the airline industry today. It's not limited to the US...Ryanair is a real turd when it comes to how they treat their people. Asian airline still seem to treat pilots reasonably well.
Read some of the old threads on this forum, most of this stuff has been beaten to death here already...
Good Luck!
08-06-2006, 09:20 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 57
Dear Rickair7777,
Thank you so much for the speedy reply! Yes, I am an American citizen (through naturalization after being born in England). I wonder if the fact that I am naturalized rather than US-born would have any effect on whether I could be a navy pilot?? I have an FAA private pilot license, and although I have flown in other countries (mainly Asia) I did my private training in the US.
As I mentioned, I have no military experience or affiliation. However, I would certainly be interested in going that route if it would allow me to fly an aircraft that I couldn't fly as a civilian. However I naturally don't want to sign up and then find out I am stuck at a desk job. Do I have any edge considering I already have my private? Or does it not really matter? Also any advice on what branch of the military you would recommend and why would be appreciated from you and from any of APC's users. Thank you.
Thank you so much for the speedy reply! Yes, I am an American citizen (through naturalization after being born in England). I wonder if the fact that I am naturalized rather than US-born would have any effect on whether I could be a navy pilot?? I have an FAA private pilot license, and although I have flown in other countries (mainly Asia) I did my private training in the US.
As I mentioned, I have no military experience or affiliation. However, I would certainly be interested in going that route if it would allow me to fly an aircraft that I couldn't fly as a civilian. However I naturally don't want to sign up and then find out I am stuck at a desk job. Do I have any edge considering I already have my private? Or does it not really matter? Also any advice on what branch of the military you would recommend and why would be appreciated from you and from any of APC's users. Thank you.
Last edited by avanti; 08-06-2006 at 11:11 PM.
08-07-2006, 06:45 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Any seat that pays
Posts: 219
What ever you do- Military or Civilian- conduct as much research as possible. One thing you have to remember about Military Recruiters as well as recruiters for flight schools. They are in the business of recruiting for commisions and to keep their job.
A lot of pretty pictures will be painted for you on the front end. After you show up- I garuntee the story will change.
For example, after qualifying in a series of tests and medical exams the Navy
will send you to OTS officer training school. At this point there are no garentees you will even see an airplane. And in qualifying to fly- you rarely have a choice in what you'll be doing ex- helicopters, jets, turboprops, navigators etc. Goes by the Navy's needs upon for graduation date.
There is also a 3 strikes and you're out policy through training. Other downsides are grounding medical and conditions lack of funding. I know of numerous people who entered the aviation programs and ended up a supply or clerical officers after they entered training.
If you want to enter the military for flying you might consider the Airforce or the Air National Guard- Who conduct a more exstensive addmittance process on the front end, but give you more choices once your through primary training.
As for Civilian aviation. You have to extremely careful on what school you choose- expessially if you take a loan out and leave that money on the fly school's account. There have be cases of fly schools shutting down and walking away with students money before they even show up for training. (Airline Training Academy, TAB have done that) If you do take out a loan make sure that the money stays with the bank or in your personal account and pay as you go. There is a place called the Pilot Career Foundation that will help you with those issues.
Anyway- Good Luck.
A lot of pretty pictures will be painted for you on the front end. After you show up- I garuntee the story will change.
For example, after qualifying in a series of tests and medical exams the Navy
will send you to OTS officer training school. At this point there are no garentees you will even see an airplane. And in qualifying to fly- you rarely have a choice in what you'll be doing ex- helicopters, jets, turboprops, navigators etc. Goes by the Navy's needs upon for graduation date.
There is also a 3 strikes and you're out policy through training. Other downsides are grounding medical and conditions lack of funding. I know of numerous people who entered the aviation programs and ended up a supply or clerical officers after they entered training.
If you want to enter the military for flying you might consider the Airforce or the Air National Guard- Who conduct a more exstensive addmittance process on the front end, but give you more choices once your through primary training.
As for Civilian aviation. You have to extremely careful on what school you choose- expessially if you take a loan out and leave that money on the fly school's account. There have be cases of fly schools shutting down and walking away with students money before they even show up for training. (Airline Training Academy, TAB have done that) If you do take out a loan make sure that the money stays with the bank or in your personal account and pay as you go. There is a place called the Pilot Career Foundation that will help you with those issues.
Anyway- Good Luck.
08-07-2006, 06:52 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 1,105
I have some experience with Big Schools, FBO's and training people froom overseas.
First the overseas. We would do a 30 day PPL here in PA for about $4300 in a 152 and about $5700 in a new DA 20. Bottom line it was 3 times cheaper to do it in the states than anywhere else. We had some one who did the JAA license from here. It's some sort of conversion but it was easier if you already had an FAA. If you are looking to return to Japan I would look into the hiring market there, you may find the minimums to be lower than airlines in the states right now, they may also have interships or in house training.
I went to a Big School and got ripped off, big time. I did my cfi's and multi comm at ATP. I'd recommed them. But don't give anybody all of your money up front.
If you've got the time get your stuff done at an FBO, it doesn't take any longer than at a full time school if you make it full time. Commit 6 hours a day to flying and you'll wrap it up quick. Go to a 141 program school and that is even quicker.
You are going to take a hit to your income, that's what anybody that has changed careers to flying has done. It willt ake a couple of year to make what your making now but in the end if its truely your passion and it sounds as though it is, it will be worth it.
Good Luck!
First the overseas. We would do a 30 day PPL here in PA for about $4300 in a 152 and about $5700 in a new DA 20. Bottom line it was 3 times cheaper to do it in the states than anywhere else. We had some one who did the JAA license from here. It's some sort of conversion but it was easier if you already had an FAA. If you are looking to return to Japan I would look into the hiring market there, you may find the minimums to be lower than airlines in the states right now, they may also have interships or in house training.
I went to a Big School and got ripped off, big time. I did my cfi's and multi comm at ATP. I'd recommed them. But don't give anybody all of your money up front.
If you've got the time get your stuff done at an FBO, it doesn't take any longer than at a full time school if you make it full time. Commit 6 hours a day to flying and you'll wrap it up quick. Go to a 141 program school and that is even quicker.
You are going to take a hit to your income, that's what anybody that has changed careers to flying has done. It willt ake a couple of year to make what your making now but in the end if its truely your passion and it sounds as though it is, it will be worth it.
Good Luck!
08-07-2006, 07:16 AM
#6
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,391
Originally Posted by avanti
Dear Rickair7777,
Thank you so much for the speedy reply! Yes, I am an American citizen (through naturalization after being born in England). I wonder if the fact that I am naturalized rather than US-born would have any effect on whether I could be a navy pilot?? I have an FAA private pilot license, and although I have flown in other countries (mainly Asia) I did my private training in the US.
As I mentioned, I have no military experience or affiliation. However, I would certainly be interested in going that route if it would allow me to fly an aircraft that I couldn't fly as a civilian. However I naturally don't want to sign up and then find out I am stuck at a desk job. Do I have any edge considering I already have my private? Or does it not really matter? Also any advice on what branch of the military you would recommend and why would be appreciated from you and from any of APC's users. Thank you.
Thank you so much for the speedy reply! Yes, I am an American citizen (through naturalization after being born in England). I wonder if the fact that I am naturalized rather than US-born would have any effect on whether I could be a navy pilot?? I have an FAA private pilot license, and although I have flown in other countries (mainly Asia) I did my private training in the US.
As I mentioned, I have no military experience or affiliation. However, I would certainly be interested in going that route if it would allow me to fly an aircraft that I couldn't fly as a civilian. However I naturally don't want to sign up and then find out I am stuck at a desk job. Do I have any edge considering I already have my private? Or does it not really matter? Also any advice on what branch of the military you would recommend and why would be appreciated from you and from any of APC's users. Thank you.
A PPL would work in your favor when apply to the military.
08-07-2006, 07:31 AM
#7
New Hire
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by avanti
Hello all- I would like some career advice.
I am considering:
A) going to ATP for the 90 day program
B) going back to my own FBO which is pricey but solid, and will take longer.
C) taking your advice if you have any good advice to give me!!
D) the military?? The cutoff is 27, right? But I wear contacts now (vision corrected to 20/20, but without them I can't see a thing. I know very little about the military...)
E) flight training in Australia or Europe would also be okay for me as I have citizenship.
I am considering:
A) going to ATP for the 90 day program
B) going back to my own FBO which is pricey but solid, and will take longer.
C) taking your advice if you have any good advice to give me!!
D) the military?? The cutoff is 27, right? But I wear contacts now (vision corrected to 20/20, but without them I can't see a thing. I know very little about the military...)
E) flight training in Australia or Europe would also be okay for me as I have citizenship.
You've gotten some good advice... begins with research.
a) a pretty good choice to get the tickets, but not necessarliy to learn how to fly or the expereince that should come with it...
b) Ok for awhile.... but opinions are everywhere... and it is good to get a broad base of experience
c) advice is worth what you pay for it<g>
d) the military is a great way to go... I think that to go to UPT for the USAF the limit without a waiver is still 27.5 years... in the guard or reserve age waivers are common if they like you. The Navy will accept you with coorectable vision... last I heard... not sure about the USAF.... you need to call a recruiter right now and ask lots of questions about your situation. You get paid well, while you learn to fly... great training and you get to fly some neat stuff.... it is a good career... the initial commitment is 10 years after pilot training (for the USAF). Check into this... I recommend it highly. If you are a citizen and have no problems with background checks.. you will be alright.
e) The largest professional pilot job market is in the US... plus if you want to go overseas you can do it easily with FAA tickets... plus it is way cheaper... stick to a US solution. A part 141 school... like American Flyers is a good choice.
08-07-2006, 07:41 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,576
I had a PPl when I went to a big name flight school. The money goes fast at these places, but I got loans too. Little schools want cash and don't offer any student loans. I just got the instrument and commercial real quick and got out. Then I did the mutli and CFI stuff at a small flight school. I'm happy with the way I went. You can get a bad instructor at a good school and a good instructor at a bad school. The point is to find a real good instructor no matter where you go. I had good instructors and was lucky. I "fired" any bad instructors. It's your money, you are running the show (at least when it comes to instructors and aircraft). Don't waste money on flight training in fancy or brand new aircraft. Training is training, no matter the aircraft. I did my PPL and Instrument in a C152. I did the commercial in a C152 & C172RG. Cheaper is better (assuming the planes are safe). "You get what you pay for" is only partly true. There are lots of good and cheap schools in California, Texas, and Florida. Good weather and lots of competition to keep costs down. I've done part 141 and 61 schools. It doesn't really mean much. Find a good instructors and good prices. Do home study ground school now on DVD or CD and take your written tests. Get them out of the way. You don't have to do them at a flight school, they offen over charge. I've seen people pay $500 for an old Jeppesson slide show strip ground school. The instructor never taught, just turned the strip when it "beeped". Don't buy fance headsets or flight bags. It's a waste of money.
Save money now while you're working. Study for the written now while you're working. Research and find a place to fly now. When you have enough money, move, fly full time and "git 'er done" fast and easy.
Good luck. I'd teach you for free if I could (on my days off).
-Rod
Save money now while you're working. Study for the written now while you're working. Research and find a place to fly now. When you have enough money, move, fly full time and "git 'er done" fast and easy.
Good luck. I'd teach you for free if I could (on my days off).
-Rod
08-07-2006, 01:42 PM
#9
New Hire
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1
26yo with ppl on the way and steady job
i just burnt a chunk of my savings on the ppl (checkride in about two weeks). i'm still paying for college and dont know if i should assume more debt. how many of you out there took out loans to continue flight training? how many took out loans despite already significant debt?
08-07-2006, 04:29 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 26
Key Bank used to offer alternative loans for flight training that were fixed to the LIBOR. I'm not sure if they still do that, however it used to be the best loan out there next to a Stafford (I have only heard of these loans being offered at major university and not so much with flight only schools) when rates were low. Sallie Mae has loan programs as does Pilot Finance. Those rates vary between 8% and 19% depending on your credit score. If you want to fly, keep borrowing.
That is a decision that you have to make for yourself. I know some people who went to Riddle with loan amounts near six figures, however that does include a BA and housing, etc...
The type of loan that you can secure, largely depends on what flight school you go to, so contact a few in your area and find out what they have.
That is a decision that you have to make for yourself. I know some people who went to Riddle with loan amounts near six figures, however that does include a BA and housing, etc...
The type of loan that you can secure, largely depends on what flight school you go to, so contact a few in your area and find out what they have.
