jmathieu

Is that the question or what?
I'm pretty much set on attenting ATP (long Island), but I can still be dissuaded. Please share any and all information that you know or have heard of about this establishment. Positive and negative points will all be useful.

Secondly; I'm trying to figure out if it is beneficial to do certain ratings part 61 and others part 141. I've heard that it is better to complete the PPL part 61; what about the rest?
-What are the hour requirements for the instrument Part 61 Vs. Part 141?
-250 hours are required for the Commercial rating Part 61. Are the number of hours required less when its Part 141? How does the 141 schools go about instructing the Commercial rating differ from 61 schools? Is the Commercial rating based simply on building time?
-ATP offers 20 hours to earn MEI, CFII, and CFI. Is that plausible within that period of time?
-ATP offers cross country trips with another pilot to built hours for the Commercial rating. What are your thoughts? Will both pilots get to log PIC time..or?
-Please share your experience. Pros and Cons of Part 61 and 141, and what you wish you would have done differently in your personal flight training experience. Thank you.

Last but CERTAINLY not least, Is the aviation industry looking toward a boom in the next couple of years because that is the popular word going around. I know we've all got aour fingers crossed, but wishful thinking aside, what do you think?
Thank you all.

khaosanroad

Part 61 or part 141 the hours are the same. In part 141 it is more structured, with certain subjects required to be taught in a certain sequence.

If you are a veteran with GI BIll you want 141. If you want to go at your own pace 61 is best.

Any hiring boom is probably about 6 years from now when retirements start to ramp up at some of the majors. So starting now and getting time built up could theoretically put you in good position for that boom.

Going to a big school does offer the benefit of possibly becoming a CFI at that school, and giving you a steady supply of students.

A buddy of mine went to a small school, and the training was great, but now he's a CFI for that small school and spends most of his time at the hanger/office hoping to find a student.

elmetal

The hours are not the same.


Example, Part 141 you can have a private at 35 vs 40 for 61

Commercial is 250 for 61 but only 190 for 141

Instrument has a lot more requirements of time in 61 vs 141

minitour

I think he meant that at the end of the day, when you write a "1" in your logbook, whether you obtained it at a 141 Pilot School or in an aircraft being taught by an instructor not under part 141 (I guess that's what we call part 61 instruction...), that 1 is still just a 1. 2 is a 2. 3 is a 3. Etc.

The minimum experience requirements are different, but the hours count the same.

That said...

What's cheaper?

-mini

elmetal

ah! Makes sense. I thought that's what he meant but I re-read and I just didn't get that feeling so I responded.

price really depends where you go but from talking to other pilot buddies, it's general consensus in my group of friends that 141 ends up being more expensive mostly because if you can't pass a lesson they will stick you on that lesson and won't go forward

jmathieu

Also, the price at ATP is a "set" price for a designated number of hours (270) with 160 or so of those hours being multi-time.

-The number of hours need for instrument and commercial are more for 61 but don't you need to built time after obtaining the rating to be competive.
It seems to me that you get it while training. BENEFICIAL/NOT?
Secondly...
-ATP offers the student the ability to take cross country trips with another pilot throughout all of it's nationwide locations. Do you think that its beneficial. All of it is included in the price until you get to the 250 hours necessary to get the commmercial.

I'm just trying to get everyone's perspective. Having already gone through the process, does this seem like a good route. You guys have the 20/20 vision. Help me to see it from your perspective.
Thanks

minitour

Yeah, I understand that concept. That question was more directed at the OP.

I had students in our 141 program that got through in damn-near-minimum times and I had students that I withdrew from our Commercial program because they were about to exceed Part 61 requirements and it was going to be just easier/cheaper/quicker to finish them up outside of our 141 program.

Just wondering, the schools that the OP is checking out, which one will be less expensive? I recommend to add 10-15% on to the 141 syllabus hours and use that for your budget.

For "Part 61" instruction, you can probably get the commercial ticket right at 250, assuming all other requirements are met, but you should add 15% or so to the dual requirements to get your budget. That should keep you safe. You may be able to cut some costs here and there if you go up and split the cost with a safety pilot while you get your hood time. Of course, when you get to the complex aircraft, the insurance may well require more than the 10 hours required in the regs for you commercial check ride. That's also something to look into.

If I were doing it all over again, I'd have gone the "part 61" route and stayed in my 152 for 90% of my training. I could have done everything in a 152, 172N or R, V35 Bonanza and Seneca. Take a safety pilot in a 152 and you can cut the cost significantly. But that's just me. YMMV.

-mini

jmathieu

250 hours with 165 or so being multi engine for a set price of $55,000 or so. Would you still complete 90% of your training in a 152 and then still have to built multi-engine time?

minitour

Yep. In a second. An extra 165 multi-engine piston hours right now wouldn't help out a whole bunch.

Unless it were flying an old dirty Baron or Navajo full of boxes...that would help out a BUNCH!!!

-mini

khaosanroad

Yeah sorry, I should have been more clear.