mshunter

I was actually told by HR at "that box company" that 160 was "a little low" with three seperate internal recomendations before the froze hiring.

And ATP will not get you 165 multi anymore. They advertise it that way, but from what I have been able to gather, they count 40hrs of Frasca sim time in that quote.

Ewfflyer

I will give ATP one thing, I like the X-C concept. It gets people out of their comfort zones and lets them explore not only the country, but also different airspaces, terrain, weather, all the good stuff that really comes down to "Have you experienced this or not?"

minitour

My point is that, in the grand scheme of things, getting 165 out of you first 250 hours in a Seminole (and let's pretend they're all airplane hours and no Frasca FTD hours - which don't count as Multi-Engine Land hours) isn't going to help you bag more than maaaaaaybe an MEI gig. Even then, if there's another instructor there, you're going to have to wait your turn.

...and most people aren't going to care where, how, when, how fast, or how much your training cost you. Especially insurance companies.

Anywho, that's my soap box. There's no reason to be in a hurry to drop a bunch of money only to cool your heels paying off a loan until hiring picks up again. I know that pilot shortage is right around the corner 'n all (sarcasm), but if you can find a way to do your primary training a less expensive route, I'd say do it. $50,000 seems like it might be a bit higher than you can find.

Hell, you can buy a decent (though not "great") IFR capable 152 for $35,000, do a bunch of training (up to the CSEL where you'll need a complex single - rent it), sell it for $25,000 and still be ahead of the game when you go find a Seminole or similar to get your CMEL in. Even with insurance, you'll still come out ahead of the $50,000 number. And your certificate will say the same thing as someone that went to ATP.

-mini

jmathieu

Thanx for the heads up on that "Frasca" time.
I just called ATP out on that sort of false advertisement and they admitted that 50 of those hours will be in the sim.
However, they said that the airllines can count it as multi time if it is the right sim.
Overall, I see the cat and mouse game that the big flight schools play.
With that said, if anyone can recommend a smaller "mom & pap" school, I'd appreciate it. thx.

minitour

For the recommendation...where are you located?

For the airlines "counting" something. They can count whatever they want. Some don't want to "count" safety pilot time. Some only want PIC time as the time you are the one responsible for the aircraft...not just sole manipulator of an airplane you are rated in. They can count what they like.

What you may put in your logbook, OTOH, is different. Also, keep in mind that a typical "Frasca" in a training environment is an FTD, not a "simulator". The difference can be subtly huge.

-mini

jmathieu

For now I'm located in New York and willing to travel to Long Island and/or New Jersey(for now).
I'm here until the end of the year until my wife gives birth and then it is on to wherever is best for flight training.( in terms of cost of living and flight training expenses and let me just throw quality training in there)
I was interested in ATP because of their many location nationwide and I liked their X-C appeal. However, like I said, I'm still able to be dissuaded.

I just got my First class medical certificate TODAY and, needless to say, I'm ready to get flyin'!

NoseUpAttitude

I would say go part 61 for your PPL and evaluate the situation after you get your Private.

Going Part 61 is less regimented and lets you be more flexible in scheduling your lessons around the rest of your life. Hopefully you'll be able to network a bit with other students and pilots at the airport and maybe after you get your Private, you can find someone to share plane rental with for your 40hrs of Cross Country time. One of you would fly visual and the other would fly with a hood on, both of you can log as PIC... And you'd cut your plane rental cost by 50%. Plus Cross Country flying is fun and you can learn alot by watching how other people (besides your instructor) fly.

Once you have your Private + 40hrs of XC time... Then maybe you should have your Instrument studying done and if you can afford taking a whole week or two off work, you could take an accelerated Instrument Rating course somewhere.

I'm not familiar with the NY area as far as airports go, but I'd just go around to every non-towered airport and look at the bulletin board or ask around to see "where can I learn to fly around here?".

I'm a 100+ hour Private Pilot and that's my advice.