Need help with landings
06-09-2010, 12:00 PM
#12
Flying Farmer
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
Doesn't necessarily have to be 1000+hr CFI, but definately seek out a few more local instructors and try flying with them. Sometimes there's just that one little difference in styles and views that will make the difference. Go back to your original instructor following this, but take in all the advice and knowledge you can.
06-09-2010, 06:29 PM
#13
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: 1976 Cessna 172M
Posts: 8
This is great stuff guys! Thank you soo much, this is really helping me put it all in perspective. I definitely think that looking further down the runway would help me. I think I'm looking dead ahead toward the ground, thus my movements on the controls are jerky and over-used. Basically it sound just like driving, look further down the road. I will try all this stuff next time up and let y'all know how it goes. Thanks again!
06-09-2010, 07:02 PM
#14
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,080
Since you have the pattern stuff down, it sounds to me like you have two problems... One is a sight picture issue, the other is an input issue.
First, learn the correct sight out the window in the flare and right at touchdown. The easiest way to do this is to have your instructor demonstrate the picture for an extended period.
I used to do this with students.. I would fly one trip around the pattern and touch down, but right at touchdown, I'd add a bit of power (about 200RPM) and keep the backpressure in. The mains would ride down the runway with the nosewheel 2-3 inches off the ground. We'd "pop a wheelie" for a few hundred feet, then add power and lift off again.
Obviously it's a technique that needs finesse, so be sure your instructor is comfortable doing it. (Although if they are a CFI, they should be). The biggest risk is misjudging and scraping the tail...
The other issue is the control issue. If you're moving the yoke too much right at touchdown, it can also mess things up. Be sure that the plane is trimmed out properly as you slow down, configure and fly around the pattern. Each time you change configuration or power setting you should retrim. Also make sure that you don't have a death grip on the yoke.
Finally, make sure your sight picture is correct. Ask your instructor to talk you through what they are looking at while they fly a landing. As I cross the end of the runway, my sight slowly transitions from my aiming point (leading edge of the 1st runway stripe) to my touchdown point (2nd stripe) to the middle of the runway and then the far end.
Our natural tendancy is to fly the airplane towards what we are looking at. If you're looking only 50' in front of the airplane during the flare, you'll underflare and hit hard. Conversely, if you're looking too soon at the end of the runway, you'll flare high and settle/stall onto the runway.
If you're getting frustrated, be sure to take a break and go do some maneuvers out in the practice area for one lesson. Soloing will come!
First, learn the correct sight out the window in the flare and right at touchdown. The easiest way to do this is to have your instructor demonstrate the picture for an extended period.
I used to do this with students.. I would fly one trip around the pattern and touch down, but right at touchdown, I'd add a bit of power (about 200RPM) and keep the backpressure in. The mains would ride down the runway with the nosewheel 2-3 inches off the ground. We'd "pop a wheelie" for a few hundred feet, then add power and lift off again.
Obviously it's a technique that needs finesse, so be sure your instructor is comfortable doing it. (Although if they are a CFI, they should be). The biggest risk is misjudging and scraping the tail...
The other issue is the control issue. If you're moving the yoke too much right at touchdown, it can also mess things up. Be sure that the plane is trimmed out properly as you slow down, configure and fly around the pattern. Each time you change configuration or power setting you should retrim. Also make sure that you don't have a death grip on the yoke.
Finally, make sure your sight picture is correct. Ask your instructor to talk you through what they are looking at while they fly a landing. As I cross the end of the runway, my sight slowly transitions from my aiming point (leading edge of the 1st runway stripe) to my touchdown point (2nd stripe) to the middle of the runway and then the far end.
Our natural tendancy is to fly the airplane towards what we are looking at. If you're looking only 50' in front of the airplane during the flare, you'll underflare and hit hard. Conversely, if you're looking too soon at the end of the runway, you'll flare high and settle/stall onto the runway.
If you're getting frustrated, be sure to take a break and go do some maneuvers out in the practice area for one lesson. Soloing will come!
06-14-2010, 01:49 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,105
GrUpGrDn said exactly what I wanted to say to start off. Look further away, too many people fixate on what's right infront of them. Do you do this in a car? I doubt it, so don't do it in a plane.
Also, maybe you should go out and just do a fun lesson, practice different manuevers, etc.. Get your mind off the landings and it might just help you out.
Also, maybe you should go out and just do a fun lesson, practice different manuevers, etc.. Get your mind off the landings and it might just help you out.
Have your instructor perform a "Landing Attitude Demo" -- meaning, have the instructor bring the aircraft right down over the runway, with the wheels just barely touching, and hold that attitude (they will have to ad a bit of power to remain airborne). Your job is to look at the flare picture. See how the nose of the the aircraft relates to the runway environment. As others have said, look at the runway end ... and see how the nose relates to this. Take a snapshot of this picture.
Next time around, you do the landing. Once you get close to the runway, transition your eyes to the end and repeat the same flare picture.
Believe it or not, in the USAF, we do landing attitude demos in the big airplanes (DC10s, etc) so students can see the flare picture. I have floated down the runway several times in a DC-10 ... it's pretty cool. But it is very useful to a student who is struggling to get the flare picture.
My two cents.
06-15-2010, 05:00 AM
#18
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 98
Congratulations on your first solo! I can still remember mine, even though it was during Reagan's first term in office...
Once you go up on your own a few times and practice they will become a piece of cake, but for anyone else reading this with similar issues, what FlyerJosh wrote about getting to know what the proper landing attitude looks like is vital. Another good way to do this is just to sit in the airplane with the tail tie down short enough to lift the nosewheel into the air a few inches. One height-challenged student I had realized when I did this that he just couldn't see over the instrument panel; a good thick cushion on the seat helped enormously!
Once you go up on your own a few times and practice they will become a piece of cake, but for anyone else reading this with similar issues, what FlyerJosh wrote about getting to know what the proper landing attitude looks like is vital. Another good way to do this is just to sit in the airplane with the tail tie down short enough to lift the nosewheel into the air a few inches. One height-challenged student I had realized when I did this that he just couldn't see over the instrument panel; a good thick cushion on the seat helped enormously!
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