RVSM Question
05-31-2010, 05:52 AM
#12
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,080
05-31-2010, 06:10 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Self employed
Posts: 3,048
I don't recommend zoom climbs in RVSM with TCAS equipped aircraft everywhere. Might get somebody hurt, or violated, or worse.
05-31-2010, 06:36 AM
#14
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,609
In a CJ3, which climbs pretty well at altitude anyway, beginning a climb at FL280 and VMo should allow a sustained climb of at least 1500fpm (probably more) all the way to FL430.
When traffic is an issue for climbing, I like to tell ATC what climb rates we're capable of so that they can plan their separation accordingly - no surprises for anyone and once ATC knows what we can do it usually allows us to get a climb clearance.
05-31-2010, 09:22 AM
#15
Owner
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: TC-12B (SELRES)
Posts: 304
UAL -
I **think** the Super Hornet was just recently certified though it doesn't have any of the items that you listed. The military was the cause of the exclusion in the first place - or so I was told at the Hornet Safety Systems Working Group in 2007. They started working on getting the strike/fighter community back into the block.
Iwaddle - Though I have not filed into RVSM lately - I have flown in it with the ATC's permission and like advised - I was sure to let them know that I was not properly equipped.
USMCFLYR
I **think** the Super Hornet was just recently certified though it doesn't have any of the items that you listed. The military was the cause of the exclusion in the first place - or so I was told at the Hornet Safety Systems Working Group in 2007. They started working on getting the strike/fighter community back into the block.
Iwaddle - Though I have not filed into RVSM lately - I have flown in it with the ATC's permission and like advised - I was sure to let them know that I was not properly equipped.
USMCFLYR
05-31-2010, 10:58 AM
#16
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
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Not Quite Free..
I try to show it to my students when we are cross-country, so they can learn the terminology, and see how the aircraft handles in the 30s (it's different; gets a little twitchy above FL320). I can get approval usually only once every 2-3 months.
Now, if it were for operational necessity (chasing somebody to stop an attack), all bets are off.
05-31-2010, 11:51 AM
#17
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,080
The military get's a pass with regards to needing to have prior approval through LOA. Officially, civilian non-RVSM aircraft must precoordinate operations in RVSM airspace prior to filing a flight plan or requesting access (including climbing above RVSM), however there is a lot of lee way given.
Military aircraft in RVSM airspace that don't have appropriate RVSM certified aircraft are subject to normal non-RVSM separation standards (2000' vertical).
Military aircraft in RVSM airspace that don't have appropriate RVSM certified aircraft are subject to normal non-RVSM separation standards (2000' vertical).
05-31-2010, 12:38 PM
#18
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
New To Me
The military gets a pass with regards to needing to have prior approval through LOA. Officially, civilian non-RVSM aircraft must precoordinate operations in RVSM airspace prior to filing a flight plan or requesting access (including climbing above RVSM), however there is a lot of lee way given....
I didn't know that distinction....thanks. I learned something today.
05-31-2010, 02:13 PM
#19
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: DH8D FO
Posts: 62
The military get's a pass with regards to needing to have prior approval through LOA. Officially, civilian non-RVSM aircraft must precoordinate operations in RVSM airspace prior to filing a flight plan or requesting access (including climbing above RVSM), however there is a lot of lee way given.
Military aircraft in RVSM airspace that don't have appropriate RVSM certified aircraft are subject to normal non-RVSM separation standards (2000' vertical).
Military aircraft in RVSM airspace that don't have appropriate RVSM certified aircraft are subject to normal non-RVSM separation standards (2000' vertical).
It seems that you military guys have to deal with this all the time so I'm sure you know better than me. My plan is to file for FL430 and put "NEGATIVE RVSM" in the remarks. Once I'm with center I'll request FL430 Negative RVSM. I'll post tomorrow afternoon after I land to report how everything goes.
Here's what the AIM says:
4-6-11. Non-RVSM Aircraft Requesting Climb to and Descent from Flight Levels Above RVSM Airspace Without Intermediate Level Off
a. File-and-Fly. Operators of Non-RVSM aircraft climbing to and descending from RVSM flight levels should just file a flight plan.
b. Non-RVSM aircraft climbing to and descending from flight levels above RVSM airspace will be handled on a workload permitting basis. The vertical separation standard applied in RVSM airspace between non-RVSM aircraft and all other aircraft shall be 2,000 feet.
c. Non-RVSM aircraft climbing to/descending from RVSM airspace can only be considered for accommodation provided:
1. Aircraft is capable of a continuous climb/descent and does not need to level off at an intermediate altitude for any operational considerations and
2. Aircraft is capable of climb/descent at the normal rate for the aircraft.
d. Required Pilot Calls. The pilot of non-RVSM aircraft will inform the controller of the lack of RVSM approval in accordance with the direction provided in paragraph 4-6-8, Pilot/Controller Phraseology.
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