makeitra

Obviously class G is uncontrolled. I have two scenarios that I am going crazy in my mind trying to figure out the answer to.

You file a flight plan and part of it has you going through class G airspace. Are you still considered on the IFR flight plan as you fly through the class G or is it temporarily cancelled or what?

Departing from a Class G airport with an IFR flight plan filed and you called center prior to departure to pick up the clearance. Are you considered on the IFR flight plan as you take off down the runway or does it not go into effect until you have reached controlled airspace?

Thanks in advance!

bubi352

There are three ways you can depart from an uncontrolled airport with the intention to fly IFR.

First, if the weather is VMC, you can takeoff VFR and pick up your clearance using the departure frequency on the Jepp chart. This is the best way to expedite departure.

Second, if the weather does not permit a VFR depature, you can call FSS station. Don't call the number 1-800-WX-BRIEF. You will find the actual number listed under FAA Phones in the AFD towards the back. The number is listed under "clearance delivery". You might talk to the same person but when he picks up the phone, he/she knows you want your IFR clearance. Be sure that your preflight is done and you are strapped in ready to go. The IFR window given is usually 5-10 minutes away from the time you hang up the phone. Be careful of two things. (1) Make sure you depart and call departure within the time frame window given. If you depart after your clearance void time, you may put yourself and someone else in danger. You have become illegal. (2) Be careful to maintain proper clearance to terrain/obstacle. Use the obstacle departure procedure. Look at the back of Jepp airport diagram all the way at the bottom. If there is nothing, there is no obstacle departure procedure. You are responsible for your own separation.

Third, you can pick up your clearance over the radio on the ground. If you look at your sectional chart you will see that some airports are class E on the ground. One of the requirements since it is a "controlled airspace" is to be able to have two way radio communication with the ground facility. So you can pick up your clearance on the ground talking to departure.

I will give you one example. I flew from Narsarsuaq to Kulusuk in Greenland. Everything is class G. There are no radars. When I picked up my clearance all I was told is: "you are cleared to Kulusuk, airborne frequency is....". That was it. No altitude, no transponder, nothing. In class G, you are responsible for your own separation!!! You should see normally on your Jepp chart a common air to air frequency. It will be your responsibility to communicate your station passage altitude and time or time to start the approach so as to avoid conflict with other aircrafts. And yes, your IFR clearance is still valid the all time. You are just on your own. That's real flying. We are way too spoiled here

NoyGonnaDoIt

See if this helps: Your filed IFR flight plan is not an IFR clearance. It's just your notification to ATC of an intended route and a request for a clearance for the portion that is in controlled airspace.

There's really no such thing as being "on a flight plan." So there's nothing to "suspend." And it doesn't matter whether you are talking to someone or not.

OTOH, if you are talking about your IFR clearance; it's really only in effect while you are in controlled airspace. If you run into a mountain while in Class G in the clouds, there, although you will obviously have some problems, an enforcement action based on a deviation from an ATC clearance or instruction will not be one of them.

Twin Wasp

On the departure from an airport in class G airspace, isn't part of the clearance "upon entering controlled airspace" fly heading 123, climb and maintain x thousand feet?

It's been a while.

bubi352

True if you are flying in the US. Wrong if you are flying abroad. Certain countries are so vast or so under-equipped that the majority of the airspace system is uncontrolled. Separation is done either via a radio operator (not ATC - he just relays information) or through an airborne frequency found on the Jepp chart by simply using altitude and expected time to a fix.

NoyGonnaDoIt

Yes, it is.

NoyGonnaDoIt

Good point. I tend to assume that the question deals with US airspace unless the OP says otherwise.

But a question: Is that "uncontrolled" you are talking about or just outside radar/direct radio contact? There are parts of Class E in the US that are outside radar contact and even a few where you are also outside radio contact.

Do you have any good references to the regs in those countries that define such things? From very little experience I know that the way other countries classify airspace, although using the familiar alphabet, can be very different. It's always interesting to learn about variations.

bubi352

Yes, airspace abroad is classified differently. It's classified according to the atc service you receive not based on traffic. If you look at a Canadian or European chart for that matter, you will see that a lot of airports are classified as class B yet have little traffic in and out. Also another interesting point is some airports have an inner ring classified as class D and an outer ring classified as C. That's because of the radar service you get. By the way, Germany doesn't have class B airports. Munich, one of the busiest airport in Europe, is I believe class C. It's definitely confusing for someone used to the US airspace system but once you grasp the concept, you get it really quickly.

ppilot

IF you are talking about flying in the US (I've never flown in uncontrolled airspace abroad):

1) You can operate IFR in class G all you want, but you won't be 'on an IFR flight plan' because you won't be controlled, and you'll be given a 1200 squawk code. Use your brain to not hit the earth, and use altitude, luck, and probability to not hit another airplane. You'll be required to get a clearance prior to entering controlled airspace again.

2) This question as worded doesn't exactly make sense. But you are uncontrolled, and are relying on the same things as above to not hit anything. No one else will be allowed to take off or do an approach into that airport until you have entered controlled airspace and contacted your controller though.

Does this make sense?

woodfinx

An IFR flight plan that has you going through Class G airspace would be something you would have to intentionally plan for. In fact if you are following all the minimium IFR altitudes the only time you could enter Class G would be departure or arrival to an uncontrolled, Class G field. (assuming you are asking this question in reference to the continental U.S.)

When you call for your clearance out of a Class G field the controller protects the airspace around the airport until your clearance void time. Up until you enter Class E airspace (and generally until you are under radar contact) terrain and collision avoidance are the PICs responsibility.(again assuming this refers to the continental U.S.)