Operating on an IFR flight plan in Class G Ai
03-08-2010, 07:21 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 206
That's not correct. What you quoted from 91.155 were minimums when operating under visual flight rules. There is nothing preventing one from operating under instrument flight rules in Class G without a flight plan.
Look at 91.173 (you can also look at that NTSB case I linked to) - you are only required to have a flight plan on file when operating under instrument flight rules in controlled airspace. No controlled airspace, no flight plan required, even under IFR.
The existence of non-existence of a flight plan does not make the difference between IFR and VFR.
Look at 91.173 (you can also look at that NTSB case I linked to) - you are only required to have a flight plan on file when operating under instrument flight rules in controlled airspace. No controlled airspace, no flight plan required, even under IFR.
The existence of non-existence of a flight plan does not make the difference between IFR and VFR.
Sec. 91.177 - Minimum altitudes for IFR operations.
(a) Operation of aircraft at minimum altitudes. Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft under IFR below --
(1) The applicable minimum altitudes prescribed in parts 95 and 97 of this chapter; or
(2) If no applicable minimum altitude is prescribed in those parts --
(i) In the case of operations over an area designated as a mountainous area in part 95, an altitude of 2,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal distance of 4 nautical miles from the course to be flown; or
(ii) In any other case, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal distance of 4 nautical miles from the course to be flown.
However, if both a MEA and a MOCA are prescribed for a particular route or route segment, a person may operate an aircraft below the MEA down to, but not below, the MOCA, when within 22 nautical miles of the VOR concerned (based on the pilot's reasonable estimate of that distance). (b) Climb. Climb to a higher minimum IFR altitude shall begin immediately after passing the point beyond which that minimum altitude applies, except that when ground obstructions intervene, the point beyond which that higher minimum altitude applies shall be crossed at or above the applicable MCA.
03-08-2010, 11:07 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 826
Absolutely. And that restriction (which applies to all IFR flight) is going to severely limit the areas where you can fly IFR en route in Class G, which is why I think the discussion is mostly academic.
But the places do exist. In the Rockies, there are still areas where Class G goes to 14,500 (and higher) and the mountains only to 10K. In some sparser sections of the midwest, I don't think you'll find too many 14,500 areas but there are some "zippers" where Class G gets pretty high relative to the terrain and some pretty empty flat spots in parts of the midwest where you can get that required 1000 over the highest terrain.
But the places do exist. In the Rockies, there are still areas where Class G goes to 14,500 (and higher) and the mountains only to 10K. In some sparser sections of the midwest, I don't think you'll find too many 14,500 areas but there are some "zippers" where Class G gets pretty high relative to the terrain and some pretty empty flat spots in parts of the midwest where you can get that required 1000 over the highest terrain.
03-08-2010, 12:52 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 206
Absolutely. And that restriction (which applies to all IFR flight) is going to severely limit the areas where you can fly IFR en route in Class G, which is why I think the discussion is mostly academic.
But the places do exist. In the Rockies, there are still areas where Class G goes to 14,500 (and higher) and the mountains only to 10K. In some sparser sections of the midwest, I don't think you'll find too many 14,500 areas but there are some "zippers" where Class G gets pretty high relative to the terrain and some pretty empty flat spots in parts of the midwest where you can get that required 1000 over the highest terrain.
But the places do exist. In the Rockies, there are still areas where Class G goes to 14,500 (and higher) and the mountains only to 10K. In some sparser sections of the midwest, I don't think you'll find too many 14,500 areas but there are some "zippers" where Class G gets pretty high relative to the terrain and some pretty empty flat spots in parts of the midwest where you can get that required 1000 over the highest terrain.
03-08-2010, 01:42 PM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 42
Yeah the problem with that is (at least of what I could find) is that all the minimum IFR altitudes in that part of the country are in class E airspace. I imagine that over all of the continential U.S. it is only an academic theory and not actually able to be performed.
03-08-2010, 05:20 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 826
Yeah the problem with that is (at least of what I could find) is that all the minimum IFR altitudes in that part of the country are in class E airspace. I imagine that over all of the continential U.S. it is only an academic theory and not actually able to be performed.
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Class G goes to 14,500. At 12,500 you are 2000' above the nearest obstruction for much more than 4 NM and still 2000' below Class E.
03-08-2010, 06:26 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 206
True.
So it could be done, but I noticed a funny thing when you look at all the non standard class E floors on the Low Enroute. For most of the areas (with the exception of 1 or 2 airports) you would have to file IFR to get to one of the non-standard areas, cancel, fly around IFR in class G, and then reopen an IFR flight plan to get to one of the areas from an airport.
So it could be done, but I noticed a funny thing when you look at all the non standard class E floors on the Low Enroute. For most of the areas (with the exception of 1 or 2 airports) you would have to file IFR to get to one of the non-standard areas, cancel, fly around IFR in class G, and then reopen an IFR flight plan to get to one of the areas from an airport.
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