GPS free flying
12-21-2009, 10:31 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 124
re:
"Honestly flying without a GPS and not getting lost is not brain surgery. It's amazing how people can over-complicate this whole VFR cross country thing.... especially in something that moves 110 knots."
Couldn't have said it better myself. I never used a GPS until my instrument training and even then, it was only a KLN 89. I try to refrain from giving PPL students the GPS experience until they can tell me exactly where we are, whenever I ask, on any given flight.
I'll never forget the time I inherited this one student. We're flying towards Mt Rainier. Seattle is behind us. I tell her to remove her foggles and tell me where we are. "I don't know" was the reply I got. A 50 hour student. Unbelievable. She got too used to the new trainers with the glass cockpit. I hope it's not a trend.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I never used a GPS until my instrument training and even then, it was only a KLN 89. I try to refrain from giving PPL students the GPS experience until they can tell me exactly where we are, whenever I ask, on any given flight.
I'll never forget the time I inherited this one student. We're flying towards Mt Rainier. Seattle is behind us. I tell her to remove her foggles and tell me where we are. "I don't know" was the reply I got. A 50 hour student. Unbelievable. She got too used to the new trainers with the glass cockpit. I hope it's not a trend.
12-21-2009, 01:25 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 317
Unfortunately, it likely is. I mean many pilots believe you need a DG or compass ensure you stay on the right course heading. This is evident from most of the posters here saying, "stay on heading" or "look at your heading." This demonstrates that with the induction of technologies, in this case DG's, we lose core basics that are far less complex.
To this I ask, why? If your flying a line over the ground, and you have multiple points on the ground, on that line, what is the point?
You only need a DG/Compass to get on the heading. After that, you can never look at them again and fly a perfectly straight line virtually forever. Obviously, I still believe in periodic scans, every 5 minutes or so. But by no means do either of these instruments need to be scanned multiple times a minute.
To this I ask, why? If your flying a line over the ground, and you have multiple points on the ground, on that line, what is the point?
You only need a DG/Compass to get on the heading. After that, you can never look at them again and fly a perfectly straight line virtually forever. Obviously, I still believe in periodic scans, every 5 minutes or so. But by no means do either of these instruments need to be scanned multiple times a minute.
12-21-2009, 01:33 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: PT Inbound
Posts: 219
The fix to fix navigation is actually quite clever and interesting (me beeing a civilian pilot only).
I understand why the FAA probably doesn't want civy pilots to do it however, when your lost in the clouds and have nothing else, it could serve you well.
I understand why the FAA probably doesn't want civy pilots to do it however, when your lost in the clouds and have nothing else, it could serve you well.
12-21-2009, 07:47 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: BE50C (A), BE95 (A), C172S (B)
Posts: 349
Oh, and please don't file airport-direct-airport if you're not "/G". Putting "VFR GPS" in the comments field is (a) dumb and (b) illegal for IFR operations. (Sorry, pet peeve. "N12345, how do you intend to navigate direct KXYZ if you are /A?")
The Twin Bonanza I fly is RNAV-equipped...there's a KNS 80 VOR DME RNAV set installed in the panel. It's relatively useless except as DME—I can't think of any VOR DME RNAV approaches in these parts. Come to think of it I could program it to take me direct to an airport given the radial/distance, but that only gets me to the aerodrome. The matter of "how to get down" can still be accomplished quite readily by VOR and ILS.
That said, there is something nice about getting on the magenta noodle and going to the destination...
12-21-2009, 10:08 PM
#26
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: ERJ F.O.
Posts: 91
For those who don't know what fix to fix is (i was never officially taught it so google came to my rescue), here is a link:
Fix to Fix
I think this is very clever and curious why it is not taught as part of civilian instrument, it's really not that complex!
Fix to Fix
I think this is very clever and curious why it is not taught as part of civilian instrument, it's really not that complex!
Stallog
12-22-2009, 07:56 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: USAF
Posts: 1,398
Agreed minus this. How do you think the old boys did it with just a wet compass, before gyros? Set up on a heading then everything is outside and map. They had to learn how to really navigate, I gave a bunch of tips on that before (point to fly/visualize a line/handrails). Hope they were helpful to someone.
When flying VFR in the islands without a GPS or solid, dependable radio navigation the compass and map combo come in handy.
This may not be an orthodox method but... when over flying certain islands that you know are, let's say 10mi long, North to South... you can time it to find out your GS.... gives you an added comfort over water.
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