Photon

BS I never said that only someone with a CFI could handle two flights a day.
I do 99% 141 training, so when I start doing a lot of activities, and the student I'm doing it with can't keep up the pace, that means incompleted lessons, repeated lessons etc.
A 61 course would be different, but 141 training has to be done in certain steps, covering certain things, and if they student can't keep up, then he will see himself being incompleted all the time, and get disillusioned by that (I've seen it happen).
That's why, some students, who are able to study ahead of the 141 curriculum are able to do many activites, while the students that do not study as much, can't be set up for 5 activities in one day if each activity is just going to show that he did nothing, and each time he sees his own gradesheet it's going to show "incomplete", "unsat" or "repeat lesson".

Gajre539

I said MOST students can't handle it unless they are CFIs. I finished a multi private add-on guy in 3 days, he flew 3 flights per day but was burnt out after the second flight. In my experience, commercial, CFI/CFII/MEI or ATP students can handle multiple dual flights in a day while private and instrument students can't. This is just something I noticed, it is not a judgment call. Every student is different and some can absorb the training, while some can't. I explain to all my students that doing multiple flights without being ready for the lesson or not being able to perform the maneuver/training to lesson completion standards could lead to an incomplete lesson.

tomgoodman

Yes, and sometimes 3 flights (a "trip-turn"). They were on a tight schedule because another full class was already scheduled right behind us, and they didn't lose any sleep if a third of us washed out. That was expected in the early '70s, but it may be different now.

Bellanca

I'm not an instructor yet, but I can give you my point of view on doing multiple flights per day during my instrument and commercial training.

When I was a private student, my instructor never let me do more than one flight per day, and looking back that was definitely good advice for me.

Once I got into instrument rating I was at a different school that allowed us to schedule whenever and however many times a day we wanted. During instrument I doubled up flights here and there and didn't really have any problems until I got into the real meat of instrument approaches, then I felt like the second flight of the day was just too much.

When I got into commercial, I typically did two flights a day. I was doing my multi engine and single engine commercial at the same time, so I'd typically do a single engine flight and a multi flight each day to mix it up a bit. Personally, as long as I had a break in between the flights I always felt like I got 100% out of my flights, and I'm pretty sure my instructor would attest to that. Once I did 4 flights in one day, and I did 3 flights in one day a couple times, and that was more than my limit.

I really think it depends on the student, but I felt like I benefitted from doing multiple flights per day. I finished my instrument in just under 40 hours (15ish hours of sim time and the rest plane) and my multi and single commercial I got in 122 hours out of 120, partially due to the fact that my single add-one checkride kept getting delayed due to weather.

the King

If you're a 141 instructor, you do have some leeway. If the guy shows up prepared for "Event 1" and completes his pre-flight briefing with no problems, you fly. If he completes, great. If not, incomplete, then use your second flight to finish the lesson, and possibly start the next in sequence.

If your student completes "Event 1" with no problem, but she doesn't show up prepared for "Event 2" then you do some ground instruction to prepare for the lesson, but don't fly.

Bottom line: If a student wants to try it and you don't have a really good reason to say no (i.e. they aren't prepped for even one lesson per day) then try it. If it's too much, go back to one lesson. If it works, you get done quicker. Incomplete lessons aren't the end of the world, just more paperwork.

propjunkie

I flew 2 flights a day during my training. I have had several students fly twice a day as well. There is no right or wrong answer. Every CFI should now that every student is different, some can fly more than once a day and some cant. Let the student fly more than once a day and see how he performs.

forumname

That's what I think. During my primary and inst. rating the plane/instructor were available on many days. so I knocked out 2 lessons. Worked out great.

shdw

My apologies if I repeat anything, I didn't read through the entire thread.

I am ok with twice in one day and very rarely three times depending on the lessons we are covering. The reason I am cautious is student retention of information. In studies I've read on retention it is best to allow new information to sink in for 24 hours before proceeding. That said, if we are sticking with the same information (ie landing practice, navigation, or similar maneuvers) than I will combine lessons or do multiple lessons with short breaks, about two hours, between.

If the material is unrelated I am usually less willing to combine unless there is a large break, 4-5 hours, between the lessons for adequate study time. I don't want a student studying two different course materials to run back to back, that harbors interference, not good.

Ewfflyer

Many people ask "Why?," I ask "Why Not?"

This subject is very dependent on the person you are training. I say go for it for a week and see if they can handle it or not. Then if things are working, continue, but if not, you and the student haven't really wasted that much time neither. That is the easiest and most practical answer I can think of.

jedinein

It depends on the person and the training program. Two lessons in a day without breaks (short or long) may not be wise. Or, it might be exactly what the CFI ordered.

Military, university, and other type programs are more than one event per day, even if one event is a ground session. Part 141 and 61 can do this too.

I had a client that was hitting a wall in his training. The only time he had available was the weekends and 1-2 evenings during the week, for which he'd arrive exhausted, too tired to learn. I got him to being ready for a checkride signoff by working him twice a day on the weekends. However, when the checkride had to be retaken, I had him in the aircraft every available evening and 3-4 sessions, basically all day each day during the weekend. He didn't need learning, he needed practicing so that he could perform under stress, while tired, while being extremely nervous, and he passed the ride after two weeks of my "owning" his schedule.

It doesn't have to be that extreme either. I've had several students do a two-fer or a three-fer in a day, mostly because they really enjoyed the learning & flying, and we got to visit some neat places.