RVSM Certified

I'm returning to aviation after being away for many years. Back when it was legal to do so, a Captain of an L-1011 (still, one of my favorite aircraft) let "loose" on the flight deck, with FE supervision, of course. I remember it well, twilight as the backdrop through the cockpit glass and the flight deck was lit-up like a bran new Christmas tree. The lights reminded me of pieces of candy, just waiting to be eaten. Man, that was when my love affair began with aircraft. I was only eight years old back then. Of course, life 'happens' and somehow I got side tracked all these years. Now, I'm back - and with a passion.

Here's my plan:

a) I am going to purchase more than one aircraft, to serve more than one purpose/need: Personal and business flying of equal length and/or range from a low of 400 nm up to intercontinental range [outside the U.S.] The type of flying will range from your basic $100 hamburger fly-in for the day, weekend aerobatic romps, summer season airshows, weekend getaways, day or week long business trips, all the way up to extended vacations. In other words, the aircraft itself is going to become an extension of myself and a very important mode of transportation from this point forward. Like a member of the family, so to speak.

b) The aircraft I plan to purchase are all high performance category aircraft: a twin engine light business jet (SPC and RVSM certified), a single engine sport VLJ and either an Extra or an Edge. There is the possibility of replacing the Extra or Edge with a P-51 Mustang, but I'm still not convinced that I'd have more fun in the Mustang, than I would the Edge or Extra - but I'll work out the details on that later.

c) I'm green on PIC hours, but no stranger to aviation in the grand scheme of things. I've been around aircraft for a long time, just never closed the deal on my license and ratings. Over the years, I've read a lot of books on different dimensions of aviation and I've even considered the possibility of building a General Aviation Aircraft Manufacturing Company producing a 7 to 9 thousand pound high-performance civilian tactical jet - but that's another topic for another day. So, I'm no stranger to aviation - I'm just not legal to fly solo.

d) My time table is within two (2) years (Private, Instrument, Commercial, ME and jet type). That means, from zero to light business twin jet, single pilot and RVSM certified within two years, give or take a couple months and topping out at somewhere near the 1,500 to 2,000 PIC hour mark [with 75% turbine, at least.]

e) I'm highly motivated with safety is my first priority and maximum pilot competency as my ultimate goal. My first priority is to stay alive. My worst nightmare is to be taught bad habits in the cockpit that one day get me killed, or someone else injured. So, pilot proficiency is a top priority and that means getting my aircraft to do what it needs to do at all times.

Ok, that's my story and I'm sticking too it. Now, allow me start out with these three questions, please:

1) What makes a good pilot?

2) How can I mentally prepare myself before initiating any flight training to eventually become the pilot that I know I can be some day?

3) Given my goals [a-e above], would I be better served by finding a retired airline pilot who still loves to fly, teach and share his/her years of experience with highly motivated students and who can give me special insight into flying swept wing jets with high wing loading? Or, could any CFI get me to where I need to be?

I have a lot more questions, but I'll start with these and work my way up from here.

Best Regards,
RVSM

Ewfflyer

Wow, first off, I want some of your money!!!!!!

Seriously though, these goals are obviously very ambitious etc.. I honestly can tell you that If you can start with as basic of an aircraft as possible, to get your private, it will do you good in the long run. Once you bang out the PPL, then you can move onto a complex/high perf single to work on the Comm/Inst ratings.

I'm actually heading out the airport to be gone all day, but I will return to this with further insight on my part(I'm a 27yr old ATP rated pilot with 4300hrs, 1100 dual given, 12 perfect sign-off's for ratings, 2000hrs flying 135 freight, and now work for a Piper/Socata dealer with another 1200hrs here flying a variety of all Piper makes, and TBM700/850's, to give you a background). I think I will have some decent advice for you and your future trek.

usmc-sgt

You will need to do a few different things of course. If at all possible find a contract CFI at your local airport that has a high level or experience in the types of aircraft you are looking for with the kind of availability you want. This will be difficult as you will find guys like me with plenty of extra 300 and aerobatic time as well as cabin class piston twin and turbine time but no jet time. You will also find guys with plenty of light jet time and cabin class twin time but zero tailwheel hours. It can certainly be done and as I am sure you know and have no problem with this, it will cost money, lots of it to get the kind of specialized training you are looking for.

As for your timeline you will be cutting it close to making it happen as far as the hours but as far as your goal is concerned that shouldnt be an issue. If you can commit to flying 5 days per week or so I expect you should have no problem getting your private through ME commercial in a year without much issue. It would of course be nice if you could narrow down which jet you are looking for so when you finish your training and are ready you can do your multi commercial during your initial training at a major sim center. I think with a great amount of studying and personal effort you can go to a flight safety type place with 250 hours (commercial mins) and pass your commercial multi engine rating and first jet type. I do not think you would be near ready to take on the world with your new jet and type but I do think you could pass. Where I think you would go from there is hire (pay, not find a local CFI who would pay you for turbine time) a professional and qualified co-captain who can show you the tricks of the trade and get you spun up on your new jet. I would probably reccomend flying with that pilot until you get a few hundred hours in type before you start carrying passengers on your own in the system single pilot.

For the aerobatics (something I know quite a bit about) I would reccomend going to someone to specializes in your specific type. Probably one of the best I can think of would be executive flyers in Bedford MA. It is owned by Michael Goulian who oversees every aspect of the program and could instruct you personally for the right price. If you do not fly with Mike you would be paired with a CFI who more than likely has 1000+ hours of aerobatic dual given in Super Decathlons, extra 300 or Pitts series of aircraft. You can either rent the schools extra for around $300 an hour or you can show up in your own or buy a new or used one through them as they are a dealer and they will still instruct you. The extra and edge are a very simple and docile aircraft to fly and land but are not for amatures when it comes to the type of instruction you are looking for.

Now, since you are looking to get your CMEL and a single pilot jet type at the same time you will want to consider a few things. If you plan on doing your ratings back to back and then into the sim at under 300 or so hours choose your trainer wisely. If you know for a fact your jet will be glass and an advanced piece of equipment you will want to train in something similiar. Think cirrus or G1000 cessna or if you have the money a Cessna 350 or 400 would be good. It will take you longer initially because they are not nearly entry level trainers but it will be along the lines of what you will be moving up to such as speeds and technology. On the other hand if you are looking at a citation II with all steam guages you will want to be in something with steam guages. Your single pilot jet type will depend extremely heavily on your stick skills in the actual IFR environment and even more importantly your instrument scan.

Arguments can be made in so many directions here as well and here are some examples. If you want to get profficient as a pilot and end up in a tailwheel I could also reccomend doing your private in a tailwheel as it will make you a very profficient stick and rudder pilot right from the start and make that extra transition a breeze. After that feel free to jump into the all glass complex machine for the instrument.

The best idea I can think of to assure success though would be to do your private in a tailwheel to aquire the stick and rudder skills. Transition to a cirrus or one of the above mentioned planes for the instrument to get used to the technology that it is apparent most of your time will be in. Do your commercial single (if you want it) and then get your private or commercial multi (your choice) in something in the middle of the road. What I mean by that is that a seminole is a cupcake and a breeze to fly where a baron is a bit much for a lowtimer to tackle initially. I would say something maybe like a cessna 310 which is a split between the two. Now, split a few hundred hours between short and long cross countries in the actual system filed IFR in the twin and the all glass airplane of your choice. Split that time equally between handflying and manipulating the autopilot to do everything that it is capable of. Use every resource that the airplane has to offer and learn everything you can about it. After a year of flying and maybe 600 or so hours and you have picked the jet you want then go to flight safety as your chances of not only passing but actually grasping what went on are much higher.

Everyone will have a different opinion here but there is a ton of experience here and everyone will have very valid points.

One of the keys though is to find a local specialized contract CFI who can work with your schedule and is aware of your goals and timelines. Try them out on a few flights to see if you two mesh well together and adjust if necessary. A good CFI that you get along with and guides you safely towards your goal will be what makes or breaks this deal and timeline.

stratoduck

like he said!

your goals are ambitious! i would suggest starting with getting a citabria, and would even push the basic 115hp version. its really a delight to fly, and get it with a few basics like the nice interior, a nav/com and transponder, and maybe, MAYBE a horizon and directional gyro.

get your private in this, and you will love just taking it up on a nice summer day and watch the world go by. as you progress through further ratings, rent a cirrus for instrument work, rent a twin for a multi-engine rating, and rent an extra or pitts to make to puke. you will still enjoy the citabria, and its an easy airplane to own.

the 150hp really gives you little extra climb and cruise, and plus it lowers the weight you can carry since the gross is the same (and really makes it more of a single place. the engine is much heavier. the version with flaps ups the gross, but you really don't need flaps unless you are looking at operating out of 1500' strips or less.

you might also consider a husky or top cub or the light sport cub, but the great part of the citabria is the simplicity of it, and the ability to due mild aerobatics too.

full disclosure - i do know the manufacturer as i used to be pals with their son when we were kids.
full dis

joepilot

I'd like to second the remarks about tailwheel and Cessna 310 training. Another thing you might consider is glider training, even if you have no intention of going on with unpowered flight. Like the tailwheel training, it helps make you a better pilot, and it may reduce your stress level if your jet suddenly turns into a glider.

With all you are planning to do, you will probably want more than one instructor. The retired airline type would be great for the instrument rating and to ride along for your first few hundred hours in your traveling machine, but your type ratings need to be at a specialized school such as Flight Safety where you can do things in the simulator that are too dangerous to try in the airplane. The tailwheel and acro training also needs to be with somebody who specializes in that type of training.

Joe

RVSM Certified

First, thanks for the time and thought you put into your reply.

Boy, I would love to be able to find the single bullet CFII/MEII/Turbine Typed guy/gal who could put all this together for me. That would be a massive victory on my part - a very big win.

At last, what you say does make sense. I'll more than likely end up finding "specialty" instructors - yes? And, then plug them into the segment where their background and experience gives me a shot at optimal learning opportunities throughout the entire training program.


Should I move the 1,500 to 2,000 up to 2,000 to 2,500? Or, are you suggesting that a two (2) year program is pusing the timeline envelope a bit too hard? Would 2.5 or 3.0 fit better?


Yes, very good point and I forgot to include that in my original post.

My plan was to conceptually return to "college." That is, to treat my flight training like a full-time job. I was thinking a typical schedule would look like the following:

Training Schedule (Mon - Fri)

0630 to 0930 - Study: text, video, audio, computer, etc.
1030 to 1330 - Flight: dual instruction.
1430 to 1730 - Study: post dual analysis and next session review.
1730 - Family time, physical training, eat, sleep, get up and do it again.
Weekends: Off (refresh the brain - do other things - or sleep)

After I solo, I thought I might increase the Flight time by one hour and reduce the morning Study time by one hour.

How does that look on the surface in terms of a timeline that targets 1,500 to 2,000 in two years up through jet type rating?

I've heard of people going into places like The MESA Pilot Development Program out of New Mexico with zero hours and coming out in two years with their Multi-Engine, then flying the right seat until they reach their ATP and from their making the move into the left seat of a Regional Turbo Prop. I don't know much about the details of the MESA program, but the timeline concept is what I liked about it. I'm just not interested in a commercial career - I used to be, but not now.


Yes. It will be the SJ30. It is single pilot certified and it has the range, altitude, climb rate/cruise speed, cabin environment and price tag, that makes it an efficient time saving platform - as time itself, will be major factor. To get the most of the aircraft solo, the pilot needs to get their single pilot and RVSM certification in type - then the higher, more turbine efficient flight levels become available in single pilot operations.



The company provides initial and recurrent training. But, I think you mean something a bit different, no? Would this mean, sending that person to the company for the OEM initial SJ30 training and then coming back to spool me up in jets in general and the SJ30 in specific, given what will be my lack of total turbine time?



Ok, now I understand.



Thanks for the tip, I'll check them out and can I tell them you sent me when the time comes?


I'd like to do the instruction in my own, but before I get one [of course] I plan to go visit the company that makes both of them, get really familiar with the differentials of both airframes and the people who support them [the OEM] and then make a decision.

Would it make more sense to find someone who has done competition aerobatics, or one who has [as you say] 1,000+ hrs in type? Is the time in type more important that the time spent in competition? I guess finding someone with both would be the best of all worlds, no?


Here's a good time to ask this question:

When should one begin their aerobatic training?

a) During Private.
b) After Private but before Instrument.
c) During Instrument.
d) After Instrument but before Commercial.


Ok, you said "after 300 hours." So, are you saying that I should be in a high-performance single with full EFIS Glass right after the Commercial Rating but before the Multi-Engine? If so, how long would I stay at the Columbia 400 level, before moving on to a high-performance twin?

Or, does it make sense to jump the high-performance twin directly after obtaining the Multi-Engine and then grabbing as much real turbine time as I move from the 300 hr level up to the 1,500 to 2,000 hr level?

Do you value the high-performance single as a light business twin jet "preparation platform," more than you value a light twin as the light business twin jet "preparation platform?" I can go either way, I just thought the sooner I jumped the light twin, the smoother my transition into the light business twin jet would be, no? [help]


So, I better get good at "flying by the numbers" and maintaining good IFR "situational awareness," yes?

During the run-up to 1,500/2,000 PIC hours, after I finish my ratings, I was contemplating putting together full-time IFR flight schedule to develop the mental and physical piloting skills required to take control of the SJ30. Basically, I was thinking of creating a fictional airline on paper/computer that flew both domestic and international flights.

Then start flying actual route plans that gives me the greatest coverage of the actual flight conditions that I will see once I'm PIC in the SJ30. Over water, over mountain ranges, hard IFR conditions, lots of time spent in east coast airspace [more complex than west coast], shorter runways, unusual approaches with positive and negative pitch/sloped runways, difficult IFR approaches, day ops, night ops, dusk/down ops, rain, fog, snow, wind, etc. Basically, becoming a very well rounded pilot and navigator all the way up to 1,500/2,000 hrs, then making the move into the SJ30.

Does that seem reasonable and/or appropriate?


I like the way you use the phrase, "stick and rudder skills" in juxtaposition to intial flight training instead of "seat of the pants." It may be the same, but it sounds a bit more meaningful, I guess.


Ok, I think this answers my question above about when to switch from high performance single to twin, but I'll let my question above remain because I'm just not sure if we are talking about the same thing here. However, I do see what you are saying about getting familiar with the technology and then switching to something 310'like.


That was really helpful, thanks! And, I think it goes a long way in answering my question above about when to move from single to twin.

What about just getting a twin that also has all the EFIS/Glass (FMS, Auto-Pilot, Coupled GPS, Wx, etc.) and putting on a whole lot of X-country flying under my belt? Good, bad, neutral idea?


And, I thank you very much for yours!


Thanks, that sounds like very timely, wise and sage advice. I appreciate your time.

usmc-sgt

Ill have to get back to this one later...it will require A LOT of typing.

But I do have time for this...DO NOT DO THE MESA PROGRAM OR ANYTHING SIMILIAR TO IT.

ok...one last thing..you will not fly near 2000-3000 hours in two years including training. Bump that number down closer to 1000-1500 MAX and you are more in the ballpark. To fly 1000 hours a year is quite a daunting task. I fly professionaly for a living and will not fly 800 this year.

RVSM Certified

No need for the "disclosure" as I luuuuuv the Citab. She was my first, and you never forget nor disclose your first, lol! Or, maybe you do! Wait a minute, reverse the order of that: disclose but never forget. Ah, what the heck...

It was the very first aerobatic aircraft that I got a ride in. A friend of mine back in College who was a senior Cadet at the time with his Air Force pilot-slot, took me up one Saturday morning and promised to make me puke. We did loops, all kinds of rolls, hammer heads and a few funky inerted moves that I really don't know the name of [I think he made them up], all in an attempt to have some fun AND to make me puke. I loved it. I asked me several time: "Are you good? Are you good?" I told him that I looked forward to doing this at 300 kts! I laughed and laughed and finally gave up trying to make me puke.

One thing though - even with it being the very first time I ever flew aerobatics, after a while, the Citab started to "feel" a little sluggish. After a while, I felt like I needed/wanted a bit more roll rate and power. But, it sure was fun to fly - you are correct about that.

Thanks for the input!


You started the other thread with me, thanks! I was going to ask you power-pilots, what you thought about getting a glider qualified as a means of getting "in-tune" with the "feel" of both the air mass and the aircraft? It seems like you like the idea, so I know where you stand on that question.

As a side note - I also plan to do some wilderness survival training, just in case it is needed. I have no intention of every using it, but I want to have some skills to impart to any survivors onboard any aircraft I fly. I almost feel like it would be my "responsibility" as the PIC to have that knowledge available for anyone I take along in my aircraft. Again, just a side note.


Thank, you. That's a point that obviously I never considered as being important and the reason why I am here asking these questions. So, it seems like you are making a cutting edge distinction between "routine" primary fligh training and "specific" type ratings. I guess when you stop to think about it, they do seem to be important distinctions to make.

I'm not quite sure the SJ30-2 type rating will be available at Flight Safety, given the reletive early stages of the aircraft's sales history - it is just not out there in large numbers yet. But, I don't yet fully understand what goes into designing the software for SJ30 sim training, so it could be just around the corner - but certainly something that I can get on the phone and as Flight Safety about.

I also hear there are jet type rating facilities up in Denver, as well, no? Mostly commercial grade aircraft from what I hear/read, but I think I've read about some Lear sim work being there as well in conjunction with Lear type ratings - but that was a while ago when I read about that. Denver Jet Center, or something that sounds like that...?

Thanks, for you input and help here, Joe.

Thedude

Slow down there speedy. If you really embark on such a "intense training" regement, you will hate aviation in short order. slow and steady, I would think of hitting the 2000 PIC mark in about 3-4 yrs is more realistic. Slow down, have fun.

Stay away from EFIS airplanes until you hit the 1000hr mark. You need those basic skills that come from round dials. You will thank yourself later

Stay away from auto-pilots will you have at least 500 hrs. I have seen way to many guys use the auto-pilot as a crutch for skills they do not posses. I still hand-fly widebodies regularly, just to keep up the skills.

Once you get some multi time under you belt. For starter turbine-mutli, I would consider looking at a King Air (prefer the 200). They are great aircraft to fly, fairly forgiving, and have a wide assortment of possible avionics. Not to mention the good range and speed and can damn near haul anything you can get through the door.

Just because you can afford to buy and advanced category airplane, DON'T. I have seen a few of those types go out and kill themselves because their ego and bank account overrode their skills. Get the basics down first and when you think you are ready wait a little while longer. Don't become and statistic.

(by the way, RVSM certification is very easy. It should not really be a goal. Its more of an aircraft issue anyway.)

RVSM Certified

I hope that we can get into a discussion about this. I've heard some good and bad things about such programs and about MESA in specific.


365 days minus 250 days leaves 115 days, or 3.83 months for time off during the course of a year. That leaves 250 flight days @ 4 hours per day, which yields 1,000 hours for the year, total time.

So, the equivalent of flying from California to Dallas Ft. Worth, every single day and not including the round-trip flight home, at jet speeds - and - I won't even be flying jets at this point.

So, that would place me in a high performance single or twin, going from California to say Denver at slower speeds - again, without the return trip that day. Ok, I see what you mean, now - big bummer on me.

BTW - when you get back and are able to respond to this: does your 800 annual hours include pure flight time - or - are you calculating block-to-block time? If it is pure flight time, then my bummer is well placed as you are cooking it a bit. But, if your 800 includes the routine/common 121 ground delays, then would I be immune from that, given my ability to just get to the flight plan at home, get to the airport, pre-flight the aircraft and launch - including whatever small scale GA delays that might exist at my local airport?