RVSM Certified

Like, Gonzales....!


Ouch! That hurt - but it may be good for me. I'm so primed right now, I could literally fly 8 hours a day and not feel one thing - nada - zip - no pain.

But, you are probably right. I might burn up on re-entry. Too fast and to steep. Wow, man! 3-4 sounds like being sentenced to jail. The no jet jail. Prop Incarceration. Prop Supermax Facility. Still, I bet your words ring true to most pilots in the know.



Wow - I was not expecting to hear that. That's interesting. Others say, get to the Glass as soon as possible. You say: No, get "dialed up" for a while before getting those silicone gauges. Interesting.

Ok, now I hear the rubber meeting the road, I think. I'm listening...you've got my attention.


I was thinking 90 series and will accept your 200 series no problem. I'm glad to see that we are both of the same Multi-Engine time building mindset with a King Air as the focal point. Good.


I'll be patient - besides, the back-order log for the SJ is long. So, your 3-4 might even be spot on target delivery time for my slot. My goal with my training is to become an efficient, proficient and optimal pilot who places safety above all other things. There is nothing more important to me that getting back to my family at the end of the day. Or, making sure they get back home with me, when they are on-board.

So, getting this right and not learning any bad habits during my primary training, is of vital importance to me. Excellence in piloting, is my goal. Safety is my motivator and getting there fast, is lower on the list of priorities. I don't want to do anything dumb, or carelessly.


Understood - thank you very much for your input!

GrummanCT

If this is actually legitimate, i'm sure thinking of all this is very exciting, but I caution you to really check your attitude. There is nothing wrong with making a plan, and knowing what you want, but remember...you gotta learn to crawl before you can walk...

King Air's, Jet's, RVSM.....Not something you need to be thinking about right now. If you have the money, they'll be there for you in a couple years.

Take this enthusiasm you have right now and apply it towards step A, learn a thing or two, and most importantly....HAVE FUN

RVSM Certified

My initial estimate was 2 years. I've heard hear that 3-4 is more likely. That gives a range of 2-4, which is fine with me. The goal now is the exact opposite of narrowed thinking. Right now, I'm in the strategic/global phase of planning, which means I need to at least contemplate everything from A to Z relative to my goals, as opposed to what someone else who is just starting out might be planning for themselves.

So, right now, this part of my research includes dialoging with with people who have the level of experience that I don't, in order to get a very good 30,000 ft view of what I'm getting myself into. When the time comes to focus on the private, I'll compartmentalize my thought, actions and attitude to coincide with handling that objective exclusively. Right now, I need the general outline for a strategic plan of action - as opposed to just jumping in with both feet without any idea of where I'm going, how to get there, or why. So, for me, at this point, this is a long-range thought process. I'll reel it in when the flight training starts.


I've going through three Private/Instrument courses right now [Sporty's, Jeppesen and King], reading several books specifically related to general aviation flying [Penglis, Schiff, Kershner, and others], reading the relevant sections of the FAR/AIM and blocking out time each day to do so, as I finish up this phase of research which includes dialoging with people in different ways about aviation in general. My forum questions are merely one aspect of my research.

Thanks for the input and I'm already having a lot of fun - looking forward to a whole lot more!

papatango269

I agree with thedude on alot of his points. Especially in regards to round dials. His timeline is more realistic as well. When I was flying freight, it was 5 to 6 days a week and I was flying just short of 1100 for the year I did that. That is an incredible amount of flying. Right on the edge of burnout. I then went to flying beechjets and was flying about 250 for the year.

With the economy and everything I was furloughed and I'm back full time doing one of the things that got me there...instructing and flying charter.
I don't know if you're looking for a place to train or what, but I'm about getting the ****** done.

I'm the Chief Flight instructor at our flight school in Council Bluffs Ia. Check out our website Advanced Air, Inc.. I have an ATP and about 900+ dual given. Whatever you decide to do....good luck!!! The journey is the best part.

Papa T

mshunter

Take TheDude's advice about the EFIS stuff. You have to learn how to walk before you can run. Glass is nice, WAY NICE. But it dosen't teach you basic skills that most pilots end up lacking from haveing too much information. When you can fly the VOR A at SMO with one dial, and no help from ATC, down to mins with confidence, then your ready to step into glass. Lots of flipping and twisting to find that next stepdown. Made me sweat on my first try, and that was at 100 kts, where things happen preaty slow. There is lots of good advice here. And the best peice so far was to slow down so you don't become a statistic. Many a pilot has burned in because his check book was faster than his pilot skills. I vaugley remember a MLB player who killed himself in a Ciatation flying single pilot in VFR, someone help me out here.

RVSM Certified

Papa T and Mshunter, thank you both very much. Your comments and input are very well taken and appreciated.

Papa, I have not begun the interviewing process yet, partly because I'm still fitting together what the big picture should/would/could look like. Selecting the Instructor for the Private and Instrument, will be one of the very last things I do, next to going out and buying a new headset and student supplies. I hear and appreciate what you are dealing with, however. I've never been furloughed as a pilot, but I have been laid-off before at a time in my life when I could least afford the hassle - so, that much I can identify with. Thank you and I hope that you return to your old routine or better, soon.

usmc-sgt

I still stand behind the efis statement. I do reccomend that that you fly your private in something else where you can really gather some stick and rudder skills and get used to the round dials however.

I will admit that round dial experience is essential...however, if you can be relatively assured that you will NEVER be flying them then EFIS experience is just as valuable. Times are changing in aviation training and I saw the glass training at my school really start to pick up. Mostly where I saw it was business men from the city would train in a glass cessna and then buy a Cirrus after either a hundred or so hours of cessna glass time or after their instrument program. Those students will never fly steam guages so it is a non essential skill. I suppose the same argument could be made that everyone should learn to drive stick. Certainly a valid point but if it is in that persons control to never own or be in a position to drive a standard than it is a non issue.

I am with you guys in your logic and followed the same path you speak of and encourage others to do the same but if this is all true it is a different scenario and needs to be approached differently. He should transition to EFIS preferably a system he will end up in and he should learn the ins and outs of it and all that it has to offer.

You can not stop the 45 hour wealthy men from buying the cessna 400 or the baron so do not fight that logic. Instead train them to be as competent and profficient as possible in the equipment they plan to occupy the most. IF you did go the round dial route one thing of promise however is that you can safely manipulate glass in as little as a 6 or so hour transition as I have taught many of them. A few hours on the ground sim, a few flights in the air and you will have a license to learn as far as glass is concerned. Either route, all is not lost.

Ewfflyer

Man there's been a lot of great discussion in here since I first typed my response. I pretty much am in 100% agreement with what these guys are saying.

Something that might work out for you is as mentioned above is to find someone that can grow with you and be equivelent in the experience you're seeking. So one instructor can get you all the base ratings of PPL/Inst/Comm/Multi, then definately specialize when it's coming to Aerobatics. Then the turbine transition, someone with type-specific training etc... would be highly recommended.

I absolutely agree with the 500+hrs before Glass/Autopilot. These make lazy pilots!!!!!!! I'm not saying they aren't great at reducing workload etc... But realistically it's more for the guys that fly for a living that need all the hlep they can get. You're goal is to fly for enjoyment, and the challenge, AP's do all the dirty work for you!

I'm sure we can all go on and on, but I wish you the best of luck. Just curious though, are they even delivering the SJ30 or certified? I thought that was a back-burner project right now.

RVSM Certified

I'm glad you still stand behind the EFIS and that you continue to articulate the same. You are correct in the sense that I will be moving from low-performance singles [training] to high-performance civilian jets [emphasis on civilian]: SJ30 and Viperjet. I will also ultimately make the final decision on whether or not I'd have more fun in the Mustang [P-51], Extra, or an Edge [aerobatics only].

Among other things, I also have something of a technical background [software] and have looked into material details of how EFIS/Glass systems are designed and the respective technology behind them. Now, current bias [subject to change] is to install Glass into everything I fly. The SJ30 comes with the Honeywell Primus Epic CDS package with the on-board IC-615, standard:

Primus Epic CDS details.

This is a truly extensible package with applications across the business jet spectrum and it has a good reputation from what I can gather thus far. The SJ will be flown on missions from as short as 500 nm to long as those with intercontinental range. So, having and being fully up to speed on that particular package will obviously be important.

On the other hands and completely on the other side of the spectrum, will be the aerobatic missions. For the aerobatic flying in the Mustang, Edge or Extra [which - I don't know yet], it is highly unlikely that I will use, need or want [from a purely practical standpoint], much "Glass" technology at all. Those "fun" missions will mostly be conducted locally in one of several pre-designated "boxes" in the sky not too far from where I live.

So, I really don't see a practical opportunity [correct me if I am wrong here] for the implimentation of full-blown EFIS in the "fun" aircraft [Stang, Edge or Extra]. Maybe an autopilot, to get me back and forth to the aerobatic "box." If I decide on the Mustang as the fun aircraft, then that opens up more airshow trips which will then inject cross-country missions into the "fun" calculus and that might open the door to having some "Glass" onboard the Stang for the longer range trips to shows.

So, while I can't say that I will "NEVER" use the round dials again after my primary training is done, I can conclude that there will be much more SJ30 time, than time spent in the Viperjet and/or the "fun" prop [Stang, Edge or Extra].

I'll most likely be in the air with the SJ anywhere from 1 to 3 times per week, with periods where a couple weeks will go by with no SJ time at all - then - right back into a week where the SJ will be flown as much as three (3) times that week alone - about 70 to 100 hours per month [EFIS time]. About 10-25 hours per month in aerobatic [non-EFIS] time.


Understood, thanks.


I'd say, they've already "changed." Everywhere I look, clubs either already have the new G-1000 C-172's, are upgrading their existing fleet with glass, or have plans to upgrade at least some of their fleet to glass. Companies like Garmin, OP Technologies, Avidyne, Chelton/Cobham and others, are making this the wave of the future for many GA aircraft. The problem with any new technology implementation, is having to work out the bugs.

Right now, that's what I've detected as a problem with some of the systems out there. The other problem that I've seen, is making sure you have someone who understands both the technology AND the aircraft well enough to do a proper/safe/correct implimentation/installation. The Mustang/Edge/Extra will all need to be customized after the build with EFIS whereas, the SJ30 was designed with the Primus Epic in mind. I've read the nightmare stories of some of those post-manufacturing EFIS installations that failed in-flight, forcing the pilot to "reboot" the system, mid-air. Not a very nice thought, but the GA/Experimental EFIS is getting better from what I gather.


Actually, if you stop to think about it, I'm trying really hard to not become one of those pilots. That's why I initially targeted at least 1,500 to 2,000 true IFR PIC hours before making the transition into the SJ30, over two years. Now, I'm being told to expect at least 3 years and possibly 4. I think with the kind of routine post-training flying schedule that I contemplate in high-performance aircraft; spaced out with periodic cross-country flights with a Check Pilot in the right seat just as a periodic sanity check on my part; I am going a long way in trying not to becoming the 45 hr guy who goes supersonic just because he can. I don't think that would be very responsible of me.

Instead, I'm interested in safety and efficiency as a pilot. Everything else, needs to take a back seat to those two fundamentals and that's why I'm asking some many questions up front. I'm trying not to make the same mistakes made by others in the past, by attempting to fly something they are not "truly" prepared to handle under all flight conditions.

That's what I'm shooting for.


I was thinking that my private, instrument, commercial and multi-engine ratings would earn me the right to "begin" the real learning process as I move from about 300 hours [post ratings] up through the 1,500 to 2,000 mark. About 1,200 to 1,700 hours to work out the details of how to perform like a truly efficient and proficient pilot, before making the jump to the SJ, Mustang and Viperjet.

Again, USMC - I do appreciate your input here.

RVSM Certified

I hope that's not what I turn into. I'm going to work hard to not allow that to happen.


The enjoyment is really key, here. I could do a fractional [netjets, flightoptions, etc.] program and just be done with it, but I love airplanes and aerospace. So, now that I am able to get back to flying, I want to integrate it into my lifestyle in such a way that is meaningful and beneficial to my business and my personal life. The only way I can do that, is to both own and operate - as opposed to just have it done for me - that's no fun, or not nearly as fun as doing it yourself.


Over 200+ orders since before the 80% buy-in of Emivest Aerospace into Sino Swearingen. Financial problems and a very difficult FAA certification process slowed the project down in years past, coupled to prevailing economic boom/bust cycles with the current recession being the worst in the program's history. Sino Swearingen was never the largest aircraft maker in the world and they brought a brand new design to market that transforms or creates a new market niche. Not an easy thing to do in any business, let alone the airplane business. The aircraft is already certified and is ready for single pilot and RVSM operations, as well. That combined with its performance capabilities, make it a relatively unmatched platform in its weight class at the same price range.

The new capital injection from Emivest will enable the ramp-up of the delivery process which has been delayed for quite some time. I hope to be in the slot for 2011/2012. If I can get it earlier, I will. Just because I have it, does not mean I have to fly it myself. I could do something similar to what others including yourself have mentioned here. Go to the company run specific SJ training with a qualified surrogate/mentor/instructor pilot together, then have that same person fly left seat as "instructor/mentor" pilot having PIC responsibilities, as I get some real-world familiarity with the SJ as I continue to build my 1,500 to 2,000 PIC hours in the high-performance twin.

Something like that would seem to provide for a smooth transition from the high-performance twin category into SJ as PIC, no?