POPA

You said it, not me.

Laxrox43

Very true...but what if you get put in a T-prop to start your career, or even an older jet that has steam gauges, huh? Don't forget the basics...

Most airlines use SIMs with steam gauges during interview flight checks, (with the exception of ASA...I think that's it) and one of the reasons why guys fail out is because of their poor instrument scans, and the inability to use round-dial instrumentation. And they have HORRIFIC situational orientation because they don't have their GPS to help them out...

Now, I don't say this to bash you, I say this because it is a proven fact - because I saw it every day...

And yes, I have used many Garmin products A LOT - primarily the 430 and 530. I have puttsed around with the G1000, and yes it's a pretty sweet piece of equipment...but I feel that a primary instrument student doesn't need to learn off of that. Maybe, take an "advanced instrument" course in something like that...but not at first. Then you've got kids punching holes in the clouds that are so focused on JUST the GPS, that they forget to fly the airplane...and BOOOOM --- they're a dirt dart...

Anyway, I'm done preaching...

Oh yeah..by the way...this is America, and I am entitled to my opinion - hehehe

Photon

I just wanna thank you guys, this topic was an eyeopener. I was |-| <- that close to do some mega-loan and enlist in ERAU. Thank you!

Uncle Bose

You're guessing and assuming. Why you'd automatically assume the ATL GM has an aviation degree is beyond me, but do enjoy your Kool-Aid. Here are ATL aviation general manager Benjamin R. DeCosta's academic credentials:

• BS Physics, Queens College, New York
• Juris Doctor, New York Law School
• Senior Executive Professional Development Program, Kennedy School of Public Administration, Harvard University

At any rate, an ERAU aeronautical science degree, or variants thereof, are not business- or engineering-related and have no use.

CWU1919

Man I don't know,I've been surprised at what this place has taught me I have a much better understanding of basic concepts when it comes to things like weather and systems, and I think from someone who is a ups heavy driver like yourself, it probably doesn't matter in your everyday line flying, but to me at least there are quirks and idiosyncracies I have learned about the industry and flying in general through some of my teachers that just can't be taught in a textbook or at a "local" fbo and that I think have and will help in my future endeavors...just the way I feel I understand if others and yourself don't agree maybe when I'm your age at UPS I'll have a change of heart...

LAfrequentflyer

Come now....Boss - thats not true. An ERAU or another school's Aero Science degree can be a icebreaker in the squad car while on patrol in inner city america.

-LAFF

FlyerJosh

Aviation Degrees have their place, but aren't the be all end all. For some they work better than others. I agree though that they don't guarantee success, or are the best course for everybody.

FWIW, I agree with Uncle Bose about the whole airport manager thing. Most airport managers DON'T have degrees in aviation related fields. Instead they often have engineering or business degrees. Some Examples:

Nuria I. Fernandez, Commissioner of Aviation for the City of Chicago:
B.S. in Civil Engineering from Bradley University in Peoria, Illinois and an M.B.A. from Roosevelt University in Chicago.

Lydia H. Kennard, Airport Executive Director for Los Angeles World Airports
Bachelor of Arts degree from Stanford, a Master's degree from Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a law degree from Harvard

Most folks that manage large airports move up through either political ranks or serve in lower capacities in order to gain their positions. Aviation degrees have nothing to do with whether or not they gain those jobs since they are definately more managment/business positions rather than aviation positions.

BE90micoperator

I have learned about the industry and flying in general through some of my teachers that just can't be taught in a textbook or at a "local" fbo.

I love how some people think that airline pilots or aviation experts who know the industry can't be found in a "local" fbo. I went to a "local" fbo. The "local" check airmen was an ex-TWA guy. Believe it or not, but some very knowledgable proffesionals who came from "mom and pop"ers still enjoy shooting the breeze there.

FlyerJosh

I agree that professors can provide some useful knowledge. However they provide more in the ways of interesting stories and motivation, than "line flying" knowledge, in my opinion.

I learned more about the inside tricks to the industry from the senior pilots that I befriended and later looks to as "mentors" when I landed my first airline job. I still keep in touch with many of them, and always find insightful advice and feedback when I need it.

Like I said before, university programs have their place, but like many other things in aviation, they aren't for everybody. I don't deny that there are some great programs out there (In fact I highly recommend UND's for those that desire to attend an aviation university program). But "one size" doesn't necessarily fit all, particularly for folks that are considering aviation as a second career.

LAfrequentflyer

IMHO - Aviation as a second career is at best a indulgence. You have to have made some money / secured a good retirement portfolio to even consider it. Aviation is too much of a gamble to jumo in without a plan / back-up for someone in their 40s.

For second career/career changers a fixed price accelerated program like ATPs is the way to go.

You also need realistic goals and have to realize that there are aviation jobs out there besides regionals / majors. I for one would be happy at a 135 but would prefer a regional like XJet.

-LAFF