A Hopeless Case?
08-18-2008, 09:20 AM
#1
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 2
A Hopeless Case?
Hey everyone!
First off, I'd like to thank all of you for your time and all the useful information I've read thus far. Unfortunately, like most of these threads, my situation varies slightly from the next and I'm looking forward to your opinions.
About me:
I'm 19, reside in Northern California and have half of my freshman year in (community)college completed (General so far-Math, POS, Comp, etc.--18 units). Like most, I'm looking to live the ''dream" - horizon, freight, regional and especially corporate! I did horrible, in high school, nearly not graduating. Thus far, I've managed A's/B's and a 25 on my ACT I took back during senior year. I didn't have the most privileged childhood, so I was never afforded the time to be around pilots and know little to nothing about the industry(besides the fact that it's in seemingly bad shape). I have only 30ish hours in a 172, so I'm looking to start my training all over again.
Educational Goals:
I've never been to any of these colleges on visits or anything of the sort, but through tedious research (and reliance on the word of others), I think I've been able to narrow it down to these schools, as I'm already looking to get out of the horrible community college system(at least in California).
-ERAU
-Jacksonville U.
-U North Dakota
-San Jose State
*Purdue (Not sure if I have sufficient GPA/credit hour credentials to be accepted)
So far it looks like UND is my best bet for acquiring an BS in some sort of aeronautical field. ERAU and JU are probably far too expensive(which I'm waiting to hear from a step-parent about financial issues). From what I understand, little to none of you recommend getting a degree in this line of work which is somewhat mind-boggling. If it comes down to that, I'd probably go with criminal justice, as a lot of you have said the degree doesn't matter, just have one. I wouldn't mind joining law enforcement, and more or less flying for the local PD, just to pass the time until openings become available. I'm also looking to get around the general education requirements; they vary far too much from state to state, and the fact is, most don't apply to what I want to do.
Other Problems:
-FBO's
I had a horrible experience at my former, and I'm not looking to juggle time between college and my career as I did with high school. I'm not sure that I could handle both at the same time to begin with, which seems to make a institutionalized education more prominent over vocational learning. It isn't completely out of the question, but I don't think I'll survive full-time school and training.
-CFI
From what I understand, CFI is the most commonplace solution to building a repertoire as a pilot. Is there any other advantage to this besides building a base of contacts or gaining experience/hours? I understand that your contacts make and break you in this business, but doesn't it all come down to how you interview? It appears to be a bunch of unncessesary additional training that is just going to further complicate things. Plus the costs of instruction/check rides for this on top of a wellfare-pay. Is it that difficult to get hired as a charter pilot (single engine Cessna's or something of the sort?) or in aerial photography? -- to build hours.
I really appreciate any and ALL feedback. Feel free to suggest schools (although I'd ask we don't turn this into a school flaming fest), financial options, whatever! Like I said, I know little to nothing about this industry, so feel free to put me in my place!
However, I'd also appreciate it if any of you looking to discourage me from becoming a pilot, do not reply.The bottom line is that I want to fly, and I'm going to - one way or another.
Thanks X 10000000000000!
{TS}
First off, I'd like to thank all of you for your time and all the useful information I've read thus far. Unfortunately, like most of these threads, my situation varies slightly from the next and I'm looking forward to your opinions.
About me:
I'm 19, reside in Northern California and have half of my freshman year in (community)college completed (General so far-Math, POS, Comp, etc.--18 units). Like most, I'm looking to live the ''dream" - horizon, freight, regional and especially corporate! I did horrible, in high school, nearly not graduating. Thus far, I've managed A's/B's and a 25 on my ACT I took back during senior year. I didn't have the most privileged childhood, so I was never afforded the time to be around pilots and know little to nothing about the industry(besides the fact that it's in seemingly bad shape). I have only 30ish hours in a 172, so I'm looking to start my training all over again.
Educational Goals:
I've never been to any of these colleges on visits or anything of the sort, but through tedious research (and reliance on the word of others), I think I've been able to narrow it down to these schools, as I'm already looking to get out of the horrible community college system(at least in California).
-ERAU
-Jacksonville U.
-U North Dakota
-San Jose State
*Purdue (Not sure if I have sufficient GPA/credit hour credentials to be accepted)
So far it looks like UND is my best bet for acquiring an BS in some sort of aeronautical field. ERAU and JU are probably far too expensive(which I'm waiting to hear from a step-parent about financial issues). From what I understand, little to none of you recommend getting a degree in this line of work which is somewhat mind-boggling. If it comes down to that, I'd probably go with criminal justice, as a lot of you have said the degree doesn't matter, just have one. I wouldn't mind joining law enforcement, and more or less flying for the local PD, just to pass the time until openings become available. I'm also looking to get around the general education requirements; they vary far too much from state to state, and the fact is, most don't apply to what I want to do.
Other Problems:
-FBO's
I had a horrible experience at my former, and I'm not looking to juggle time between college and my career as I did with high school. I'm not sure that I could handle both at the same time to begin with, which seems to make a institutionalized education more prominent over vocational learning. It isn't completely out of the question, but I don't think I'll survive full-time school and training.
-CFI
From what I understand, CFI is the most commonplace solution to building a repertoire as a pilot. Is there any other advantage to this besides building a base of contacts or gaining experience/hours? I understand that your contacts make and break you in this business, but doesn't it all come down to how you interview? It appears to be a bunch of unncessesary additional training that is just going to further complicate things. Plus the costs of instruction/check rides for this on top of a wellfare-pay. Is it that difficult to get hired as a charter pilot (single engine Cessna's or something of the sort?) or in aerial photography? -- to build hours.
I really appreciate any and ALL feedback. Feel free to suggest schools (although I'd ask we don't turn this into a school flaming fest), financial options, whatever! Like I said, I know little to nothing about this industry, so feel free to put me in my place!
However, I'd also appreciate it if any of you looking to discourage me from becoming a pilot, do not reply.The bottom line is that I want to fly, and I'm going to - one way or another.
Thanks X 10000000000000!
{TS}
08-18-2008, 10:48 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 105
I think your comment about the "horrible" community college system in California is nonsense. I was a part-time instructor at one of them, and although they don't have the prestige of Harvard, they provide quality education at a bargain price. In particular if you are a marginal student (not sure what you mean by saying you didn't really graduate high school) they are an excellent opportunity to do remedial work or prepare to meet the requirements to transfer to a four-year institution.
And by the way, the purpose of general education is not to prepare you for your career. It's to make you an educated person. If you want to be a professional, not just a glorified bus driver, this is critical. Professionals are educated.
Given the general consensus that for a career flying you need a four year degree but not necessarily a degree in aviation, why would you reject the public universities in California? The quality is excellent, and the tuition is a bargain. You have emphasized your determination to fly... if that's the case, if you know anything about this industry, you know that it is highly unstable and minimizing your education expense would seem prudent.
At your age and given the current state of the industry, it seems to me the best option would be to complete your education. Finish the requirements at your JC to transfer to Cal State or UC, and get the four-year degree in something you enjoy, and that can be a basis for a backup career to flying if you need one.
And by the way, the purpose of general education is not to prepare you for your career. It's to make you an educated person. If you want to be a professional, not just a glorified bus driver, this is critical. Professionals are educated.
Given the general consensus that for a career flying you need a four year degree but not necessarily a degree in aviation, why would you reject the public universities in California? The quality is excellent, and the tuition is a bargain. You have emphasized your determination to fly... if that's the case, if you know anything about this industry, you know that it is highly unstable and minimizing your education expense would seem prudent.
At your age and given the current state of the industry, it seems to me the best option would be to complete your education. Finish the requirements at your JC to transfer to Cal State or UC, and get the four-year degree in something you enjoy, and that can be a basis for a backup career to flying if you need one.
08-18-2008, 11:27 AM
#3
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,057
Despite you problems in HS, you seem pretty logical and articulate for a 19 year old. Your less-than-privileged upbringing will help you to keep things in perspective as you battle your way into this career.
Get a four year degree in a non-aviation field which might serve as a career backup (aero engineering would be OK).
FBO's and small flight schools offer the best and worst training opportunities...you have to carefully slect the right one, but you will save a ton of money that way. All the large acacemy schools are overpriced, and many (or most) will mistreat you.
Some aviation universities offer good programs, but are usually very expensive. Look into Utah Valley State College near Salt Lake City...I have flown with a number of their graduates in the airline biz, and nobody has anything bad to say about it.
Flight instruction is the probably the ideal entry-level job...there are many reasons for this. In most cases it is also the only job that will be available to a low-time pilot, so assume that is what you will do. If you get lucky and stumble into a non-cfi flying job, great, but don't plan on that...you will be disappointed.
Many civilian pilots will also not consider you to be a "real pilot" without CFI experience.
Most law enforcement flying jobs are obtained through years of seniority as a cop, and networking with the flight ops people. The few agencies that hire pilots off the streets will be looking for a lot of flying experience.
Get a four year degree in a non-aviation field which might serve as a career backup (aero engineering would be OK).
FBO's and small flight schools offer the best and worst training opportunities...you have to carefully slect the right one, but you will save a ton of money that way. All the large acacemy schools are overpriced, and many (or most) will mistreat you.
Some aviation universities offer good programs, but are usually very expensive. Look into Utah Valley State College near Salt Lake City...I have flown with a number of their graduates in the airline biz, and nobody has anything bad to say about it.
Flight instruction is the probably the ideal entry-level job...there are many reasons for this. In most cases it is also the only job that will be available to a low-time pilot, so assume that is what you will do. If you get lucky and stumble into a non-cfi flying job, great, but don't plan on that...you will be disappointed.
Many civilian pilots will also not consider you to be a "real pilot" without CFI experience.
Most law enforcement flying jobs are obtained through years of seniority as a cop, and networking with the flight ops people. The few agencies that hire pilots off the streets will be looking for a lot of flying experience.
08-18-2008, 02:54 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"little to none of you recommend getting a degree in this line of work which is somewhat mind-boggling."
It won't be mind boggling once you are sitting in our shoes and looking back on it. Everyone has their own opinion, but going to Riddle, and an aviation degree, were about the biggest mistakes in my career, so far.
"I'd probably go with criminal justice, as a lot of you have said the degree doesn't matter, just have one."
That's a solid plan B back up. I have a friend who is a Dash 8 Capt who did the same.
It won't be mind boggling once you are sitting in our shoes and looking back on it. Everyone has their own opinion, but going to Riddle, and an aviation degree, were about the biggest mistakes in my career, so far.
"I'd probably go with criminal justice, as a lot of you have said the degree doesn't matter, just have one."
That's a solid plan B back up. I have a friend who is a Dash 8 Capt who did the same.
08-19-2008, 09:59 AM
#5
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 2
--
On the subject of schools, affordability is most prudent as you stated. I feel like I'm setting myself up for failure by studying a field that I'm not enthusiastic about (the main cause of problems for me in HS). Do I just need to grow a pair and do it anyways(get a degree in something else), or am I catastrophically damaging(or limiting) my future by getting a BS in aviation?
What about a major/minor program? I'm not sure exactly how this works in college, so I hope I'm not getting off topic, but could this be a solution?
I don't think I'm ready to dive into an ERAU financial fiasco, but I would think reputation is key in this industry(in terms of producing talented/well-strung pilots). Is it not? I frequently read people telling stories about 'half of the pilots I know being from here or there.' Is that just coincidence? I understand that flight experience is going to be the most crucial element, and not necessarily that ERAU is the leader in that category, but I'm looking to find that out your opinions/opinions of aviation employers on some of these schools or university aviation programs in general, primarily on UND.
I think I'm beginning to see the light, and I hope I'm not making you feel like you're talking to a wall. A lot of this stuff just seems illogical to me, but thats why I'm here!
I'll definitely take a look at Utah Valley in the meantime, and feel free to throw more of them at me!
Thanks for all of your help thus far!
Last edited by ThunderStorm; 08-19-2008 at 10:02 AM. Reason: grammar
08-19-2008, 10:10 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"I catastrophically damaging(or limiting) my future by getting a BS in aviation?"
No, it checks the square. If you have no other interests outside aviaiton then don't kill yourself doing something you don't care about. Just understand, all your eggs are in one basket, which is less than ideal.
No, it checks the square. If you have no other interests outside aviaiton then don't kill yourself doing something you don't care about. Just understand, all your eggs are in one basket, which is less than ideal.
08-19-2008, 12:26 PM
#8
I'm a man of my word.
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Devil's Advocate
Posts: 2,883
Good luck
08-19-2008, 01:07 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,213
I feel the same way. Come hell or high water, I'm gonna fly something. Most of these guys say get a degree and I suspect they might be right. My advice, based on my experience as a 20-year old 121 pilot, is get your certificates FAST, as fast as you can handle. Six months from Hour One to CFI, II, MEI would be just right. Then, get into a college, it doesn't matter what college, as long as there are warm bodies walking around campus. Pick a college that has a flight school-busy airport near it and get yourself a CFI job. I know its not appealing whatsoever, however, its the best experience you can get while time-building. Now comes the easy part: Go to class, do well in class, teach people to fly. Repeat as necessary or until you have a degree. And presto! You held down a full time job and went to college. Now you have a degree and close to 4000 hours with a good deal of multi time. Time to get a job.
Good luck
Good luck
08-19-2008, 02:01 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
"I catastrophically damaging(or limiting) my future by getting a BS in aviation?"
No, it checks the square. If you have no other interests outside aviaiton then don't kill yourself doing something you don't care about. Just understand, all your eggs are in one basket, which is less than ideal.
No, it checks the square. If you have no other interests outside aviaiton then don't kill yourself doing something you don't care about. Just understand, all your eggs are in one basket, which is less than ideal.
Here's my real question I have... Lets say by a miracle you submit your app to an airline... There is 1 slot open and it comes down to 2 applicants... You and this other guy. You have the same requirements as the other guy but your BS is in Aviation Maintenance and his is in Aeronautical Science (The Professional Pilots Degree) what looks better??
