Cubdriver

Cessna trainers recover with no input from the pilot at all other than to pull the power. They are resistant to spin and want to get out of one. Citabrias and similar aircraft (Decathlons) spin quite easily, and require some opposite rudder to get out. The in-air training in the latter is maybe a half hour lesson. Ground class can take a half hour or an hour depending on the background of the student. I cannot imagine spending a thousand bucks to get a spin endorsement as some schools charge. The subject is pretty deep if you go into all the areas concerned but for a CFI-related signoff it is not a lengthy subject. If someone cannot sign you off for a couple hundred bucks- airplane included- keep shopping.

celticpilot

You have to be able to demonstrate as well as teach how to safely get into as well as recover from a spin. At our school we use Great Lakes biplanes. About an hour on the ground and usually two flights. One to get used to all the various types of spins and spin entries. And the other to teach the same, back to the instructor.

About 50 percent of the students get a little woozy on their first flight. But they do better on the second flight. You will have a blast. Be ware the flght instructor that will sign you off after only a half hour TT in the airplane for doing spins. FAA is not looking to favorably on this right now.

I have a friend whom worked and trained at Sunrise and she couldn't say enough about them. They are very experienced over their and should meet your needs. They use Super Decathalons. Fun plane..... Hey get your tailwheel while you are at it......

Cubdriver

This is news to me. I don't see why so much time is required to get someone truly great at letting go of the controls, which is the way out of an incipient spin in a 172 or 152. No inputs whatsoever, besides pulling the power back. These airplanes will not get into a fully developed spin unless there is a deliberate attempt to do so. I think that keeping the cost of flight training in parity with the amount of training needed for a safe training environment for students is the issue. It can be done in 30-45 minutes of flight time.

b18onboost

Hi Cubdriver, thank you for answering my question. Just the thought of having do spin makes me want to puke. When doing spin training, do you get to wear a parachute in case something goes wrong?

celticpilot

First off, spins in a Cessna is a joke and you are right they never go passed incipient phase. But if you look at the PTS, it states that you should be able to teach such maneuver. Plus don't you want these soon to be instructors completely understanding what they are doing. Or are we just going to continue to let our training rank and file fail miserably in the complete understanding and teaching of flight maneuvers.

As in (and I see this all the time from other schools):

1) Never done a turning stall in both take off and landing attitude configurations
2) Never done MCA turn beyond 10 degree angle of bank (told they would spin and could die).... Give me a freeking break
3) Delayed recovery stall, accelerated, cross-controlled, etc.....
4) A rudder, what is that????

I see by your screenname that you are a cub driver? Then you should know this better than most.

As far a spin recovery, How about PARE?

This is why spins should be tought and why instructors should be proficient at it. And not in a Cessna. Students should get real training, so that they completely understand what they are doing, not just that they did it.... We are supposed to be teaching right?

Stick and Rudder seems to be going away more and more every day... Sad.....

ERAUdude

Did my spin endorsement in a 172 a couple weeks ago. Surprisingly, if you hold the inputs to enter the spin, it will get going pretty good. From what I can remember flying the Decathlon, the 172 spun just as fast. It didn't lose altitude like the Decat though. That of course is spinning to the left.

Spins to the right are very difficult and require you just letting go of the controls and it'll come right out.

ILS37R

You're explicitly not required to wear a 'chute for CFI spin training. If you're doing it in an aerobatic plane, however, you'll probably use one in case you're having a good time and want to do some loops or rolls while you've got the aircraft.

Regardless, a spin is not the time to be bailing from a plane. First off, spins are recoverable--this is the whole point of the endorsement, yes? Secondly, there's a whole lot of plane moving around during a spin and there's a chance it could smack you if that's when you jump. You want the plane as close to straight-and-level as humanly possible when you jump. Barring catastrophic structural failure or an unextinguishable fire tracing its way to the wings, you're generally better off flying the plane to the ground, anyway.

Spins are actually a lot of fun, not to mention the basis of many aerobatic maneuvers. If you're prone to motion sickness, you might get a little green but don't worry about it; the CFI you go with was prepared for that before agreeing to the flight. Similarly, they're fully versed on spins and will recover the plane if you have a brain fart during practice.

Relax and have a good time.

Cubdriver

Yeah let's not beat this one to death. Spin training is fun and enjoyable.

To reduce the chances of becoming queasy in a spin keep your eyes fixed on points on the ground or the horizon because the brain does better when it has visual reference to go with forces felt in the inner ear. Parachutes are not required for CFI spin training by aviation reg's, but aerobatic airplanes use seats that are designed to be used with a parachute so you will probably use them anyway if you train in one. As he said above, jumping out of the a/c during a spin is unlikely.

When I received spin training I had already spun a J3 Cub so it was no big deal. My instructor had a Decathlon as well as an old 172, so we actually took both of them up for some spins. Decathlons are of course more agile and responsive on the controls and if you want the ideal spin training find someone with a Decathlon to do it. If you want to save some money Skyhawks are cheaper. The newer Skyhawks are somewhat limited by gross weight and CG range for spins, but they fly the same. Given a choice between a 172 and a 150 I would take the latter since they handle better.

-Cub

b18onboost

Thank you for all the tips guys. I will definitely refer back to this thread when I am getting ready to do my CFI.