E-mail I received from Gulfstream
01-24-2008, 02:02 PM
#1
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
E-mail I received from Gulfstream
I politely asked Gulfstream Academy to stop sending me junk mail and this is the e-mail I received in return. I thought it was humorous.
Another misinformed pilot. Unfortunately you have been misinformed about out program. This is why I am going to high schools now. If you look at the kids that come here at 18 years old they complete the program from zero hours and in a year they finish up with over 500hrs, with over 250 being Multi-engine Turbine Time and Part 121 Experience and Training on a real airline. (Now keep in mind I have students here with as little as 190hrs to well over 1,000hrs from 18 to well over 50 years old. The majority being in their upper 20's, 30's and 40's. Again another reason why I am going to High Schools)
And they only paid about $65-70K...That's about $140 an hour and that includes the Turbine Time. And now they are 19 with a seniority number and a job and building the right kind of hours and experience that they need to move on. By the time they are 23 years old (I believe that is what your age is now...) they already have at least 3,000hrs total time with over 2,500 being Turbine / 121 time and ready to upgrade to Captain. And since they were 19 and working and earning a paycheck they started working on their degree on-line. The one thing they have over the other route is 4 to 6 years of more flying at the end of their careers than those other pilots that went the other route. That means a higher seniority number which translates into better pay, better options as far as base, vacation, plane, etc. That's about $500K to over $1 million in salary those 4 to 6 extra years at the end of their career which these other pilots will never have.
Whereas the other route you go 4-5 years to college, get your degree and end up with a grand total in 4-5 years of maybe 250? Or 300+ hrs of Piston time? And most likely have paid over $100,000+? Who paid for what? And if they come here from other flight schools, like Delta Connection or Embry or WMU instead of going the CFI route OH...which by the way, you have to PAY for these ratings too right? At Delta Connection a CFI, CFII and MEI (if you want that multi time) is around $40K. And now they want you to instruct the next year and a half or two making $10-$12K a year and building what kind of hours? And what kind of experience? Where instead they come here and for $30K they are getting in 6 months over 250hrs of Turbine Time and Part 121 (not 141 or 61 or 91 or 135) but 121 Training and Real Life Experience and a guaranteed Job on a real airline. (which by the way if you break it down at this point that's about $118 per hr for Turbine Time. You can't even rent a 172 for that cheap and these other programs with their multi piston time building or simulators pretending to be an airline - not free either but no where near what they get here) And there is a guaranteed job here not an interview... We lose over 100 pilots here each year going straight to the larger regional's and major's. Obviously if there was a problem then we would not lose so many pilots. It's for a reason, they only experience a 2% turn away rate versus the over 60-70% that is going on out there right now. Who do you think the Airlines are going to hire first? A Turbine Time pilot or a Piston Time pilot? And by the way they BOTH PAID for their training.
Again this is why I am going to High Schools. First because I am tired of hearing at jobs fairs, "Gosh I wish I would've known about this before I spent over $100K and all these years" and second to dispel rumors. Number one rumor: Are degrees required at any regional airline? NO. A major yes, it comes into play BUT you also need a lot of hours and that includes PIC TURBINE TIME as a Captain on a regional. So we say instead of going the traditional 8 to 10 to over 12 years route to get to a major. Our pilots are doing both at the same time and doing it in 5 to 6 years. Which do you think is better? Number two rumor: Are CFI ratings required at the Airlines? NO. Especially now they are showing that they NEVER were needed. Things change don't they? But you still need hours and experience like the military guys had. In comes Gulfstream Training Academy. After over 16 years of business with the same philosophy we had then and now we have over 1,700 pilots at every Airline you can think of. But instead of going to the military you can come here where you don't need to be the perfect human just a 1st class medical and it's 6 months not 10 years and it's a 98% completion rate NOT 2%.
Now if you can tell me what you paid for in monetary figures AND also time figures and compare...lets see who paid for what. Then if you are right we can say or you can say a paid F/O position. We just offer a different route which is Cheaper, Faster and with a Higher success rate than any other program in the country and I see where our 18 year olds are at after 4-5 years versus the other route after 4-5 years and you tell me which was a better deal. I understand the ones that went the other route and have now spent well over $100k and years but we can still help them. I tell them look at this as your Masters. Probably a lot cheaper than what a Masters cost at your school BUT why does anyone PAY for a Masters in any industry? To make more money in the long run. I hate to say you should've come here in the first place but it's true but I can still help them if they want to go this route. And again it does not matter which route one took it's just a different option than the traditional route and it seems to be working but don't bash until you fully understand the program. Which obviously you did not. But good luck in your future endeavors and I hope it works out for you. Thanks and Have a great day!
[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]Bobby Pinto Pilot Recruiter
Gulfstream Training Academy
Tel: 1-877-359-4853 ext. 235
Cell: 1-954-557-6299
Fax: 1-954-874-0606
Another misinformed pilot. Unfortunately you have been misinformed about out program. This is why I am going to high schools now. If you look at the kids that come here at 18 years old they complete the program from zero hours and in a year they finish up with over 500hrs, with over 250 being Multi-engine Turbine Time and Part 121 Experience and Training on a real airline. (Now keep in mind I have students here with as little as 190hrs to well over 1,000hrs from 18 to well over 50 years old. The majority being in their upper 20's, 30's and 40's. Again another reason why I am going to High Schools)
And they only paid about $65-70K...That's about $140 an hour and that includes the Turbine Time. And now they are 19 with a seniority number and a job and building the right kind of hours and experience that they need to move on. By the time they are 23 years old (I believe that is what your age is now...) they already have at least 3,000hrs total time with over 2,500 being Turbine / 121 time and ready to upgrade to Captain. And since they were 19 and working and earning a paycheck they started working on their degree on-line. The one thing they have over the other route is 4 to 6 years of more flying at the end of their careers than those other pilots that went the other route. That means a higher seniority number which translates into better pay, better options as far as base, vacation, plane, etc. That's about $500K to over $1 million in salary those 4 to 6 extra years at the end of their career which these other pilots will never have.
Whereas the other route you go 4-5 years to college, get your degree and end up with a grand total in 4-5 years of maybe 250? Or 300+ hrs of Piston time? And most likely have paid over $100,000+? Who paid for what? And if they come here from other flight schools, like Delta Connection or Embry or WMU instead of going the CFI route OH...which by the way, you have to PAY for these ratings too right? At Delta Connection a CFI, CFII and MEI (if you want that multi time) is around $40K. And now they want you to instruct the next year and a half or two making $10-$12K a year and building what kind of hours? And what kind of experience? Where instead they come here and for $30K they are getting in 6 months over 250hrs of Turbine Time and Part 121 (not 141 or 61 or 91 or 135) but 121 Training and Real Life Experience and a guaranteed Job on a real airline. (which by the way if you break it down at this point that's about $118 per hr for Turbine Time. You can't even rent a 172 for that cheap and these other programs with their multi piston time building or simulators pretending to be an airline - not free either but no where near what they get here) And there is a guaranteed job here not an interview... We lose over 100 pilots here each year going straight to the larger regional's and major's. Obviously if there was a problem then we would not lose so many pilots. It's for a reason, they only experience a 2% turn away rate versus the over 60-70% that is going on out there right now. Who do you think the Airlines are going to hire first? A Turbine Time pilot or a Piston Time pilot? And by the way they BOTH PAID for their training.
Again this is why I am going to High Schools. First because I am tired of hearing at jobs fairs, "Gosh I wish I would've known about this before I spent over $100K and all these years" and second to dispel rumors. Number one rumor: Are degrees required at any regional airline? NO. A major yes, it comes into play BUT you also need a lot of hours and that includes PIC TURBINE TIME as a Captain on a regional. So we say instead of going the traditional 8 to 10 to over 12 years route to get to a major. Our pilots are doing both at the same time and doing it in 5 to 6 years. Which do you think is better? Number two rumor: Are CFI ratings required at the Airlines? NO. Especially now they are showing that they NEVER were needed. Things change don't they? But you still need hours and experience like the military guys had. In comes Gulfstream Training Academy. After over 16 years of business with the same philosophy we had then and now we have over 1,700 pilots at every Airline you can think of. But instead of going to the military you can come here where you don't need to be the perfect human just a 1st class medical and it's 6 months not 10 years and it's a 98% completion rate NOT 2%.
Now if you can tell me what you paid for in monetary figures AND also time figures and compare...lets see who paid for what. Then if you are right we can say or you can say a paid F/O position. We just offer a different route which is Cheaper, Faster and with a Higher success rate than any other program in the country and I see where our 18 year olds are at after 4-5 years versus the other route after 4-5 years and you tell me which was a better deal. I understand the ones that went the other route and have now spent well over $100k and years but we can still help them. I tell them look at this as your Masters. Probably a lot cheaper than what a Masters cost at your school BUT why does anyone PAY for a Masters in any industry? To make more money in the long run. I hate to say you should've come here in the first place but it's true but I can still help them if they want to go this route. And again it does not matter which route one took it's just a different option than the traditional route and it seems to be working but don't bash until you fully understand the program. Which obviously you did not. But good luck in your future endeavors and I hope it works out for you. Thanks and Have a great day!
[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]Bobby Pinto Pilot Recruiter
Gulfstream Training Academy
Tel: 1-877-359-4853 ext. 235
Cell: 1-954-557-6299
Fax: 1-954-874-0606
Last edited by pilot866; 01-24-2008 at 02:23 PM.
01-24-2008, 02:41 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,213
I politely asked Gulfstream Academy to stop sending me junk mail and this is the e-mail I received in return. I thought it was humorous.
Another misinformed pilot. Unfortunately you have been misinformed about out program. This is why I am going to high schools now. If you look at the kids that come here at 18 years old they complete the program from zero hours and in a year they finish up with over 500hrs, with over 250 being Multi-engine Turbine Time and Part 121 Experience and Training on a real airline. (Now keep in mind I have students here with as little as 190hrs to well over 1,000hrs from 18 to well over 50 years old. The majority being in their upper 20's, 30's and 40's. Again another reason why I am going to High Schools)
And they only paid about $65-70K...That's about $140 an hour and that includes the Turbine Time. And now they are 19 with a seniority number and a job and building the right kind of hours and experience that they need to move on. By the time they are 23 years old (I believe that is what your age is now...) they already have at least 3,000hrs total time with over 2,500 being Turbine / 121 time and ready to upgrade to Captain. And since they were 19 and working and earning a paycheck they started working on their degree on-line. The one thing they have over the other route is 4 to 6 years of more flying at the end of their careers than those other pilots that went the other route. That means a higher seniority number which translates into better pay, better options as far as base, vacation, plane, etc. That's about $500K to over $1 million in salary those 4 to 6 extra years at the end of their career which these other pilots will never have.
Whereas the other route you go 4-5 years to college, get your degree and end up with a grand total in 4-5 years of maybe 250? Or 300+ hrs of Piston time? And most likely have paid over $100,000+? Who paid for what? And if they come here from other flight schools, like Delta Connection or Embry or WMU instead of going the CFI route OH...which by the way, you have to PAY for these ratings too right? At Delta Connection a CFI, CFII and MEI (if you want that multi time) is around $40K. And now they want you to instruct the next year and a half or two making $10-$12K a year and building what kind of hours? And what kind of experience? Where instead they come here and for $30K they are getting in 6 months over 250hrs of Turbine Time and Part 121 (not 141 or 61 or 91 or 135) but 121 Training and Real Life Experience and a guaranteed Job on a real airline. (which by the way if you break it down at this point that's about $118 per hr for Turbine Time. You can't even rent a 172 for that cheap and these other programs with their multi piston time building or simulators pretending to be an airline - not free either but no where near what they get here) And there is a guaranteed job here not an interview... We lose over 100 pilots here each year going straight to the larger regional's and major's. Obviously if there was a problem then we would not lose so many pilots. It's for a reason, they only experience a 2% turn away rate versus the over 60-70% that is going on out there right now. Who do you think the Airlines are going to hire first? A Turbine Time pilot or a Piston Time pilot? And by the way they BOTH PAID for their training.
Again this is why I am going to High Schools. First because I am tired of hearing at jobs fairs, "Gosh I wish I would've known about this before I spent over $100K and all these years" and second to dispel rumors. Number one rumor: Are degrees required at any regional airline? NO. A major yes, it comes into play BUT you also need a lot of hours and that includes PIC TURBINE TIME as a Captain on a regional. So we say instead of going the traditional 8 to 10 to over 12 years route to get to a major. Our pilots are doing both at the same time and doing it in 5 to 6 years. Which do you think is better? Number two rumor: Are CFI ratings required at the Airlines? NO. Especially now they are showing that they NEVER were needed. Things change don't they? But you still need hours and experience like the military guys had. In comes Gulfstream Training Academy. After over 16 years of business with the same philosophy we had then and now we have over 1,700 pilots at every Airline you can think of. But instead of going to the military you can come here where you don't need to be the perfect human just a 1st class medical and it's 6 months not 10 years and it's a 98% completion rate NOT 2%.
Now if you can tell me what you paid for in monetary figures AND also time figures and compare...lets see who paid for what. Then if you are right we can say or you can say a paid F/O position. We just offer a different route which is Cheaper, Faster and with a Higher success rate than any other program in the country and I see where our 18 year olds are at after 4-5 years versus the other route after 4-5 years and you tell me which was a better deal. I understand the ones that went the other route and have now spent well over $100k and years but we can still help them. I tell them look at this as your Masters. Probably a lot cheaper than what a Masters cost at your school BUT why does anyone PAY for a Masters in any industry? To make more money in the long run. I hate to say you should've come here in the first place but it's true but I can still help them if they want to go this route. And again it does not matter which route one took it's just a different option than the traditional route and it seems to be working but don't bash until you fully understand the program. Which obviously you did not. But good luck in your future endeavors and I hope it works out for you. Thanks and Have a great day!
[/color][/size][/font]Bobby Pinto Pilot Recruiter
Gulfstream Training Academy
Tel: 1-877-359-4853 ext. 235
Cell: 1-954-557-6299
Fax: 1-954-874-0606
Another misinformed pilot. Unfortunately you have been misinformed about out program. This is why I am going to high schools now. If you look at the kids that come here at 18 years old they complete the program from zero hours and in a year they finish up with over 500hrs, with over 250 being Multi-engine Turbine Time and Part 121 Experience and Training on a real airline. (Now keep in mind I have students here with as little as 190hrs to well over 1,000hrs from 18 to well over 50 years old. The majority being in their upper 20's, 30's and 40's. Again another reason why I am going to High Schools)
And they only paid about $65-70K...That's about $140 an hour and that includes the Turbine Time. And now they are 19 with a seniority number and a job and building the right kind of hours and experience that they need to move on. By the time they are 23 years old (I believe that is what your age is now...) they already have at least 3,000hrs total time with over 2,500 being Turbine / 121 time and ready to upgrade to Captain. And since they were 19 and working and earning a paycheck they started working on their degree on-line. The one thing they have over the other route is 4 to 6 years of more flying at the end of their careers than those other pilots that went the other route. That means a higher seniority number which translates into better pay, better options as far as base, vacation, plane, etc. That's about $500K to over $1 million in salary those 4 to 6 extra years at the end of their career which these other pilots will never have.
Whereas the other route you go 4-5 years to college, get your degree and end up with a grand total in 4-5 years of maybe 250? Or 300+ hrs of Piston time? And most likely have paid over $100,000+? Who paid for what? And if they come here from other flight schools, like Delta Connection or Embry or WMU instead of going the CFI route OH...which by the way, you have to PAY for these ratings too right? At Delta Connection a CFI, CFII and MEI (if you want that multi time) is around $40K. And now they want you to instruct the next year and a half or two making $10-$12K a year and building what kind of hours? And what kind of experience? Where instead they come here and for $30K they are getting in 6 months over 250hrs of Turbine Time and Part 121 (not 141 or 61 or 91 or 135) but 121 Training and Real Life Experience and a guaranteed Job on a real airline. (which by the way if you break it down at this point that's about $118 per hr for Turbine Time. You can't even rent a 172 for that cheap and these other programs with their multi piston time building or simulators pretending to be an airline - not free either but no where near what they get here) And there is a guaranteed job here not an interview... We lose over 100 pilots here each year going straight to the larger regional's and major's. Obviously if there was a problem then we would not lose so many pilots. It's for a reason, they only experience a 2% turn away rate versus the over 60-70% that is going on out there right now. Who do you think the Airlines are going to hire first? A Turbine Time pilot or a Piston Time pilot? And by the way they BOTH PAID for their training.
Again this is why I am going to High Schools. First because I am tired of hearing at jobs fairs, "Gosh I wish I would've known about this before I spent over $100K and all these years" and second to dispel rumors. Number one rumor: Are degrees required at any regional airline? NO. A major yes, it comes into play BUT you also need a lot of hours and that includes PIC TURBINE TIME as a Captain on a regional. So we say instead of going the traditional 8 to 10 to over 12 years route to get to a major. Our pilots are doing both at the same time and doing it in 5 to 6 years. Which do you think is better? Number two rumor: Are CFI ratings required at the Airlines? NO. Especially now they are showing that they NEVER were needed. Things change don't they? But you still need hours and experience like the military guys had. In comes Gulfstream Training Academy. After over 16 years of business with the same philosophy we had then and now we have over 1,700 pilots at every Airline you can think of. But instead of going to the military you can come here where you don't need to be the perfect human just a 1st class medical and it's 6 months not 10 years and it's a 98% completion rate NOT 2%.
Now if you can tell me what you paid for in monetary figures AND also time figures and compare...lets see who paid for what. Then if you are right we can say or you can say a paid F/O position. We just offer a different route which is Cheaper, Faster and with a Higher success rate than any other program in the country and I see where our 18 year olds are at after 4-5 years versus the other route after 4-5 years and you tell me which was a better deal. I understand the ones that went the other route and have now spent well over $100k and years but we can still help them. I tell them look at this as your Masters. Probably a lot cheaper than what a Masters cost at your school BUT why does anyone PAY for a Masters in any industry? To make more money in the long run. I hate to say you should've come here in the first place but it's true but I can still help them if they want to go this route. And again it does not matter which route one took it's just a different option than the traditional route and it seems to be working but don't bash until you fully understand the program. Which obviously you did not. But good luck in your future endeavors and I hope it works out for you. Thanks and Have a great day!
[/color][/size][/font]Bobby Pinto Pilot Recruiter
Gulfstream Training Academy
Tel: 1-877-359-4853 ext. 235
Cell: 1-954-557-6299
Fax: 1-954-874-0606
01-24-2008, 02:57 PM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: B747, Left
Posts: 85
My take is:
Any time you PAY for experience someone else usually gets paid to do you are in the wrong. Paying to sit right seat in a Beech 99 on a freight run certified for single pilot ops you are not taking away anybody's pay or job as no pilot would get paid for that job anyway. Sitting in the right seat of a 1900 in 121 and paying for it is to take away a job from a pilot who normally would get paid for that job. That's wrong.
Any time you PAY for experience someone else usually gets paid to do you are in the wrong. Paying to sit right seat in a Beech 99 on a freight run certified for single pilot ops you are not taking away anybody's pay or job as no pilot would get paid for that job anyway. Sitting in the right seat of a 1900 in 121 and paying for it is to take away a job from a pilot who normally would get paid for that job. That's wrong.
01-24-2008, 04:23 PM
#7
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
Pay to play may be wrong (I believe it is), but he might be right about one thing: an 18yo that follows this may, over his lifetime, earn more..... assuming the potential stigma of pay to play doesn't follow him around.
On the other hand, if a 16 yo traded work at the local FBO for flight time through the commercial, then at 18 he hauled checks, CFIed, or towed banners, etc. he would be richer still.
(sorry for the run on)
On the other hand, if a 16 yo traded work at the local FBO for flight time through the commercial, then at 18 he hauled checks, CFIed, or towed banners, etc. he would be richer still.
(sorry for the run on)
01-24-2008, 05:28 PM
#9
Moderator
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
Gulfstream Academy
This person's idea that going to college is a waste of time and his portrayal of higher education as a means to an end is disturbing. The gist of his idea is that one will make more money by arriving at an airline a few years early by using the system he advocates. But most pilots detest pay-for-training at the professional level because they think the time for developing generalized life and aviation skills has passed by the time a pilot assumes responsibility for paying customers. And this writer exemplifies the same deficiencies that I think professionals respond to in the products of the system: disregard for quality of life, disregard for professional standards, image and honor, and a lack of interest in higher education.
Last edited by Cubdriver; 01-24-2008 at 05:36 PM.
01-24-2008, 06:18 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: left seat regional
Posts: 146
You know one thing that eats at my brain is this - while we all want to get into the game as early as possible (being getting to a regional, major, or whatever) because seniority is everything right? but when you think about it - suppose you do get that regional job at 22, and the major job at 28 - you still have 35+ years doing the same thing? I NEVER want to be that old fart complaining about his life in the left seat, if I make it in this career that long - GREAT! I hope I still love it, but education will still open up MANY other options as well, be it other businesses, side jobs, a fallback plan, etc. It may not always seem like education reaps many rewards but many are intangible too. There is more to life than getting to the left seat as fast as possible. That gulfstream rep is a tool.
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