FBOs - San Francisco Bay Area
09-11-2007, 10:28 PM
#1
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FBOs - San Francisco Bay Area
I'm looking for any comments, suggestions, experiences, opinions and/or recommendations regarding a good FBO in the San Francisco Bay Area.
Also, any information about a reputable Part 141 school near SFO would be appreciated as well.
Thanks!
Also, any information about a reputable Part 141 school near SFO would be appreciated as well.
Thanks!
09-12-2007, 03:08 PM
#2
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www.shorelineflyingclub.com/ is a good place, so is www.advantage-aviation.com I'm not 100% sure if they're part 141, but they're about 30 minutes south of SFO at PAO. Diamond aviation and WVFC in SQL are good too. Avoid Bel Air International- the owner is a crook. PM me if you'd like, I know some instructors down in PAO that are the best in the business.
09-12-2007, 09:26 PM
#3
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Sabre 60
Posts: 203
I am from the Bay Area and I have had experience with many of the bay area flight schools. I fly out of San Carlos. Here is what I recommend based on what I know from Hayward, San Carlos, and Palo Alto.
San Carlos
This is my favorite airport, but it also has the craziest airspace!
Diamond Aviation is a good school with a good owner. I really like their facilities and the owner is a business man, so he is willing to make deals. The downside is they have a mostly brand new fleet. Therefore you will be paying about $135 for an airplane there (Brand new Cessna 172SP's). They have a fleet of a few Katana's, but I discourage this place because I highly recommend training in a 1980 era Cessna 152 or Cessna 172. Their planes are just too expensive.
West Valley Flying Club is the largest non-profit flying club in the world. They have everything from Cessna 152/172/182/206 to Piper Cherokee/Warrior/Archer/Arrow/Seminole to Cirrus SR20/SR22 to Tailwheel Citabria's and Pitt's to Diamond Twinstars, and even a Military T-6. They have a huge fleet, and a great selection (they operate out of San Carlos, Palo Alto, and Hayward.) The downside is their dues are extremely expensive ($75 joining fee plus $50 a month, whether you fly or not). Another downside is in addition to their somewhat normal rates, they have a $10 or so dollar and hour fuel charge!! That makes them one of the most expensive places to rent from in the area. The other downside is the owner is NOT a business man. He is a CFI who somehow became the general manager, and is not willing to cut deals.
Bel Air. Do not go to Bel Air. Let me say that again. DO NOT GO TO BEL AIR. Ask any flight school in the area and they will tell you about all the members that left Bel Air because they got ripped off some way or another. My good friend went to Bel Air and he left because that. The owner is really agressive in trying to get you to fly and spend money. He wants to see all your money uprfont. He will give a loan to anyone (even if they shouldn't get one). He will cut some crazy deals (He once offered me 10 free hours!), but I still don't think it is worth the hassle. They are working hard on getting a contract with the Chinese for flight training, and I really don't want to be flying around with that language barrier at a busy class D airport where class B aispace starts at 1500ft over the field, and you are surrounded on all sides by water and class C airspace!
Palo Alto
Advantage Aviation (also called Palo Alto Flying Club) is a good club. They have a pretty good size fleet with reasonably priced airplanes. They just remodeled their entire facility, and it looks great. Owner/manager are willing to cut deals. Planes are in pretty good shape.
Shoreline Flying Club. Looks like a good operation. Decent sized fleets and VERY reasonable rates. I love how they have NO MONTHLY DUES. I also like how their prices are based on when you rent. If you fly at night, it is $20-$30 cheaper an hour (because FBO rental planes hardly ever fly at night). It is about $5 an hour cheaper on the weekday's, and full price on the weekend's.
Sundance Aviation and Stanford Flying Club. These are two separate operations that I have no experience with. All I ever saw was their rate sheet and that was it. Too expensive, too small, and not for me.
Hayward
California Airways looks like a good school. The biggest thing you have to be careful of is they rent their aircraft "dry". That means that fuel is not included in the price. This could be good and it could be bad. For private training, it is fairly good. You will spend a lot of time in the pattern and therefore you burn less fuel. Basically you can plan a Cessna 172 to burn about 8 gallons per hour of TACH time. During work in the pattern, you can turn .5 to .7 hours of tach for every hour on the hobbs. FYI. Remember, gas costs about $4.50 a gallon, and more in other places. Plan accordingly.
Hope this helps.
Ross
San Carlos
This is my favorite airport, but it also has the craziest airspace!
Diamond Aviation is a good school with a good owner. I really like their facilities and the owner is a business man, so he is willing to make deals. The downside is they have a mostly brand new fleet. Therefore you will be paying about $135 for an airplane there (Brand new Cessna 172SP's). They have a fleet of a few Katana's, but I discourage this place because I highly recommend training in a 1980 era Cessna 152 or Cessna 172. Their planes are just too expensive.
West Valley Flying Club is the largest non-profit flying club in the world. They have everything from Cessna 152/172/182/206 to Piper Cherokee/Warrior/Archer/Arrow/Seminole to Cirrus SR20/SR22 to Tailwheel Citabria's and Pitt's to Diamond Twinstars, and even a Military T-6. They have a huge fleet, and a great selection (they operate out of San Carlos, Palo Alto, and Hayward.) The downside is their dues are extremely expensive ($75 joining fee plus $50 a month, whether you fly or not). Another downside is in addition to their somewhat normal rates, they have a $10 or so dollar and hour fuel charge!! That makes them one of the most expensive places to rent from in the area. The other downside is the owner is NOT a business man. He is a CFI who somehow became the general manager, and is not willing to cut deals.
Bel Air. Do not go to Bel Air. Let me say that again. DO NOT GO TO BEL AIR. Ask any flight school in the area and they will tell you about all the members that left Bel Air because they got ripped off some way or another. My good friend went to Bel Air and he left because that. The owner is really agressive in trying to get you to fly and spend money. He wants to see all your money uprfont. He will give a loan to anyone (even if they shouldn't get one). He will cut some crazy deals (He once offered me 10 free hours!), but I still don't think it is worth the hassle. They are working hard on getting a contract with the Chinese for flight training, and I really don't want to be flying around with that language barrier at a busy class D airport where class B aispace starts at 1500ft over the field, and you are surrounded on all sides by water and class C airspace!
Palo Alto
Advantage Aviation (also called Palo Alto Flying Club) is a good club. They have a pretty good size fleet with reasonably priced airplanes. They just remodeled their entire facility, and it looks great. Owner/manager are willing to cut deals. Planes are in pretty good shape.
Shoreline Flying Club. Looks like a good operation. Decent sized fleets and VERY reasonable rates. I love how they have NO MONTHLY DUES. I also like how their prices are based on when you rent. If you fly at night, it is $20-$30 cheaper an hour (because FBO rental planes hardly ever fly at night). It is about $5 an hour cheaper on the weekday's, and full price on the weekend's.
Sundance Aviation and Stanford Flying Club. These are two separate operations that I have no experience with. All I ever saw was their rate sheet and that was it. Too expensive, too small, and not for me.
Hayward
California Airways looks like a good school. The biggest thing you have to be careful of is they rent their aircraft "dry". That means that fuel is not included in the price. This could be good and it could be bad. For private training, it is fairly good. You will spend a lot of time in the pattern and therefore you burn less fuel. Basically you can plan a Cessna 172 to burn about 8 gallons per hour of TACH time. During work in the pattern, you can turn .5 to .7 hours of tach for every hour on the hobbs. FYI. Remember, gas costs about $4.50 a gallon, and more in other places. Plan accordingly.
Hope this helps.
Ross
09-13-2007, 08:42 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
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FBOs - San Francisco Bay Area
Thanks for the info on the SF Bay Area FBOs... very helpful.
I can't PM anyone yet since I'm a new member and this is only my 3rd post.
Is Bel Air International really that bad? I live on the Peninsula and their location at the San Carlos airport would have been very convenient since I didn't really want to cross any bridges to the East Bay or drive down to the San Jose area everyday.
Advantage Aviation was my first choice for an FBO and I'm glad their reputation is good.
Thanks again!
I can't PM anyone yet since I'm a new member and this is only my 3rd post.
Is Bel Air International really that bad? I live on the Peninsula and their location at the San Carlos airport would have been very convenient since I didn't really want to cross any bridges to the East Bay or drive down to the San Jose area everyday.
Advantage Aviation was my first choice for an FBO and I'm glad their reputation is good.
Thanks again!
09-14-2007, 10:50 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Sabre 60
Posts: 203
Don't worry whether the school is part 61 or part 141. It really doesn't matter. While a part 141 "may" be able to get you a commercial license at fewer hours, they tend to cost much more than a part 61 school. So while you need 250hrs from a part 61 school and only 190hrs from a part 141 school, the part 141 probably won't be any cheaper, in fact it may just cost more. Plus you are going to need that time anyway (going part 61) if your goal is to become a professional pilot. Plus there is not as much flexibility in a part 141 school whereas a part 61 school will give you all the flexibility you need.
DO NOT GO TO BEL AIR! It is a rip off. Every flight school in the area has former Bel Air students. They all leave once they have been ripped off. The owner wants most/all of your money up front. It is not a credible operation.
Cost wise, Advantage Aviation or Shoreline Flying Club in Palo Alto are probably the best choices. If cost is not a big issue, fly at West Valley out of San Carlos. They have a huge and very diverse fleet, but they are much more expensive for comparable cost airplanes. Plus $50 a month membership dues whether you fly or not!
DO NOT GO TO BEL AIR! It is a rip off. Every flight school in the area has former Bel Air students. They all leave once they have been ripped off. The owner wants most/all of your money up front. It is not a credible operation.
Cost wise, Advantage Aviation or Shoreline Flying Club in Palo Alto are probably the best choices. If cost is not a big issue, fly at West Valley out of San Carlos. They have a huge and very diverse fleet, but they are much more expensive for comparable cost airplanes. Plus $50 a month membership dues whether you fly or not!
10-09-2007, 09:04 AM
#9
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
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