SongMan

-What is the normal procedure as far as the altitude when turning cross wind? Of course it depends on TPA and other factors. But I'm asking standard procedure. Is it 300feet below TPA or...what do you guys use?

-When entering Charlie airspace, do you contact the proper approach and get handed to the tower or do you call tower direct without using approach?

Thanks!

YourCptSpeaking

The AIM says to turn crosswind within 300 feet of TPA...
http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...4/aim0403.html (see 4-3-3)

-Yes, you contact the appropriate approach control. You should be able to find these frequencies in white boxes surrounding the C airspace on the sectional in question...

Happy Flying!

SongMan

I know that many people contact approach first. I'm asking what you and other instructors do since It's not breaking to rule to contact the tower straight.

Same goes for the crosswind. I'm not asking what is on AIM. I'm asking what you and other instructors teach in a standared normal pattern.

thanks

FlyerJosh

You can never go wrong by teaching what's in the AIM.

Although it's been a long while since I last taught, I've always taught my students to use the resources that they have available to them. That includes approach/departure services for radar advisories if they are available. We'd contact the approach facility.

YourCptSpeaking

I teach what is in the AIM because that is what is recommended by the FAA. Think about it...if they ask you why you turned at 700AGL, you have a solid reason for the examiner. If you turn somewhere else, then you have to come up with your own reason.

Also, I always contact approach control first when going into C airspace. Why not? They put those boxes on the sectional for a reason: they want you to go to approach first instead of clogging up the tower with people trying to get in who they are, where....all that. Also I have tried this before, and the tower just tells you to contact approach anyway, so you might as well save them the trouble.

It's sort of like shooting an NDB instrument approach...you can, but why? :-)

the King

You better contact Approach first! I can guarantee that if you try to call tower 20 miles out, they'll tell you to call approach. Now if you're buzzing around under the shelf, you might (and I stress, might) be able to contact tower. But all my experience says you'll have to talk to approach first. Most of the ATC guys around here would be pretty unhappy with you if you decided to just skip approach.

Ewfflyer

700AGL for the turn is fine, and from what I taught and what was accepted where I was, was a 400' turn. Reason being it kept you closer to the airport, and also 400' is the accepted standard for a turn-out on a IFR departure.

Class-C airspace, you should never contact the tower before talking with approach. The tower's control area is only a small portion of airspace surrounding the actual airport, the approach controllers handle everything else. This is their job, so there really isn't any other way of going about it, unless there's a "Special" procedure for your airport with the tower/approach to do otherwise.

SongMan

Thanks Guys! I appreicate your help and opinions.

sigep_nm

Depends on what AND where I am flying. If I am flying a twin or at a controlled airport I turn crosswind when either directed or 300' below TPA which ever comes first. At an uncontrolled field in a single engine I turn at a visually safe altitude but never lower than 400' AGL. Reason being that if I were to lose an engine at some point on the crosswind I am already going back towards the airport and it would require less of a turn to go back to the runway. Basic rule of thumb is to never attempt a turn back the runway if you lose an engine on upwind due to it requiring more than 180 degrees of turn (see stall spin) However on a crosswind leg there is less of a turn required to get back, that being said though it would still take thorough planning and excellent airmanship to return. I hope this was the kind of reasoning that you were looking for.

SongMan

What is the rule of thumb when turning back to the runway? I mean at what altitude above ground do you attempt to turn around?