SayLess89

I just wanted to start a converstion on what you experienced pilots think is more valuable to employers ( Regionals to start) in todays economy. Do a part 61 and get all the hours needed for the airline, then get a online degree. Or go all in on a aviation school and get less hours and alot more debt. I guess what im asking is which looks better having more total/ PIC hours with no degree ( that you will get later) or a credited 141 with low flight time. which looks better to who and why. thank you in advance

rickair7777

I've trained, instructed, and managed a school both 61 and 141.

In general a 141 university with R-ATP eligibility is not worth the cost... they charge a premium.

If money is no object to you, then sure why not? If you have GI Bill, it's your only option anyway.

Otherwise I'd say traditional college and work on your flying on the side part 61.

For a few years, up until 2024, I'd have said that it might make sense to knock out ratings and time building as fast as humanly possible, get on with a regional, and then work on an internet degree. Reason being that many folks were getting hired by legacies without a degree, so regional 121 experience was the priority.

Now the industry seems trending back to more normal competitive requirements, which typically means a degree. As the retirement wave has peaked and is on thg downslope, we're not likely to see the mad rush to hire any warm body with 1000 hours regional 121 SIC. That was the best hiring climate in industry history and will not repeat for the forseeable future.

JohnBurke

Nobody cares where you went to school or got your training. Either you can fly to standards, or you can't.

Experience counts.

If you rush through your training and emerge with minimum hours, you'll still need to get those hours somewhere; either you pay for it, or you get someone else to pay for it (go to work). Choose.

Future employers don't care.

The only primary training which will be given special considration is military experience, given the known standards that are applied to military aviators.

If you have any other background, employers don't care where you got your initial training; only that you show up qualifid, competent, and ready to work.

TiredSoul

Part 61 allows much more flexibility then Part 141 which tends fo be too rigid.
I’ve been Chief Flight Instructor at a 61/141 school and I much preferred Part 61 0 - hero students.
Part 141 does not allow you to fly lessons out of sequence and adheres to a very ambitious syllabus. Lesson redo’s require permission from Chief FI.
Under 61 you can incorporate more and combine lessons, for instance introduce radio navigation much earlier so there is much more understanding and proficiency once the IR starts. Also under 61 all of your time building can be done cross country while the 141 syllabus does not allow this.
Also under Part 61 I’ve combined CPL/CFI about 5-6 times with a 100% succes rate.
Do all your CPL training and checkride from the RH seat and use the same examiner for your CFI.
That saves you about 20-25 hrs of additional flight time. You can be a CFI at 252 hrs.

EMAW

On the other hand the more rigid schedule allows a reduction in time required as a prerequisite for each rating. I got my CFI at 226 hrs and I didn't fly from the right seat until after I got my commercial ASEL. And the time building doing cross country or not depends entirely on who approved your syllabus.
Things may have changed since the early 2000s when I was in college/flight training.

TiredSoul

Instructors can eff up a 141 just as well as tehy can a 61 student.
The syllabus is the recipe and the instructor is the cook.
For the Private the difference is only 5 solo hrs so if anything it’s a reduction in your experience.
As far as I recall the Jeppesen syllabus had 120 hrs of time building and of that a ton of time as local maneuvers and dual training.
But that was a while ago.
Trying to get a “school made” syllabus FAA approved takes an act of Congress.
No ASI wants his signature on anything which is not commercially available.
At least that’s my experience with the FAA.

Sliceback

Part 141 -

PPL - 44.4 hrs (10 hrs gliders 4-5 yrs prior. 34 hrs SEL after the 4 yr break of no flying).
Comm/Inst - 200.2 hrs
CFI - 17.6 hrs (one retest after busting the checkride - single item hook)
MEL - I think it was 8 hrs?

So in a perfect world I could have knocked it 226 hrs zero to hero? But the reality is a did some personal flying post Comm/Inst. Started a commuter job with 255 hrs. 18 months after starting PPL training. So 29 hrs of family and friends flying?

Get the ratings and time sooner. Do well. Work hard. Get better. Be trainable. "Everything else is rubbish." Mannfred Freiherr von Richthofen.

Go to college. Bust butt. Finish in 2.5 yrs with 250 hrs. In 3.5 yrs you might be at the regional if you get a 100/hr month job. Upgrade 2 years later (if those still exist if the major hiring slows). At 25 yrs old be a Part 121 regional Captain with 3000 hrs and 0 TPIC with a college degree.

Option #2 - Go right into flying post H.S. Bust butt. Regional FO at 21. Regional Captain at 23. Working on online degree once you're at the regional airline. At 25 you'll have 4500 hrs, 1500 hrs TPIC, and an online degree. Guess who your FO is? The guy who went the college route. When he upgrades you'll be in the bucket to become a CKA.

BOTH paths show drive...IMO one shows more.

SayLess89

thank you for the advise..what is yall view or exprience with these pathway programs. Are they really advantagous to a "quick path to the majors" or are they rubbish. Just want to get the full scope of everthing from EXPERIENCED pilots like you guys and girls.

bondjamesbond

Generally speaking, the airlines don't care where you did your training as they will train you up the way they want you fly. Having said that, I work in the training department and fly the line as a captain at a major and I can tell the difference almost immediately. The people coming from places like Thrust, ATP, American Flyers, etc. are generally pretty squared away on day one and easily navigate new-hire training and IOE. Some (not all) of the part 61 people struggle in the sim and tend to have sizable knowledge gaps. Not knocking mom and pop flight schools as that's how I learned to fly 300 years ago. I just think the quality control is a little tighter at the 141 operators. You'll definitely pay more, but chances are your training will be better and that will help you further down the road. Just my opinion...

Sliceback

I'm in your camp. In general the Part 141 cookie cutter is probably a better program. But there's excellent Part 61 and just "I'm a CFI, call me" ways to get quality increase. It's just harder to tell if the local provider is that good if you're a novice. Think any of the poor operators tell you "I'm not that good but I'll probably get you enough to pass?"

There's a local place by me that has retired airline and ex-military guys that speak highly of their operation. I've taken a couple of local check out flights with them and I don't hesitate to recommend them. FSDO named the owner the regional CFI of the year once. Local guy who likes teaching and running a local training/rental business.