California Bay Area 141 schools
07-18-2007, 06:55 PM
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California Bay Area 141 schools
I'm considering starting school in August and I was wondering if anyone knew or went to any schools in the bay area. I was looking at either Ahart or California Airways. Any suggestions?
07-18-2007, 10:42 PM
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07-19-2007, 07:06 AM
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KPAO...Palo Alto's airport is a GA Mecca...they have like 6 schools there...I took a buddy from Arkansas out there and we were both like 2 kids, not in a candy store, but a candy FACTORY! If you live close to Palo Alto go check it out!
07-19-2007, 09:38 AM
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I am from the Bay Area and I have had experience with many of the bay area flight schools. I fly out of San Carlos. Here is what I recommend based on what I know from Hayward, San Carlos, and Palo Alto.
San Carlos
This is my favorite airport, but it also has the craziest airspace!
Diamond Aviation is a good school with a good owner. I really like their facilities and the owner is a business man, so he is willing to make deals. The downside is they have a mostly brand new fleet. Therefore you will be paying about $135 for an airplane there (Brand new Cessna 172SP's). They have a fleet of a few Katana's, but I discourage this place because I highly recommend training in a 1980 era Cessna 152 or Cessna 172. Their planes are just too expensive.
West Valley Flying Club is the largest non-profit flying club in the world. They have everything from Cessna 152/172/182/206 to Piper Cherokee/Warrior/Archer/Arrow/Seminole to Cirrus SR20/SR22 to Tailwheel Citabria's and Pitt's to Diamond Twinstars, and even a Military T-6. They have a huge fleet, and a great selection (they operate out of San Carlos, Palo Alto, and Hayward.) The downside is their dues are extremely expensive ($75 joining fee plus $50 a month, whether you fly or not). Another downside is in addition to their somewhat normal rates, they have a $10 or so dollar and hour fuel charge!! That makes them one of the most expensive places to rent from in the area. The other downside is the owner is NOT a business man. He is a CFI who somehow became the general manager, and is not willing to cut deals.
Bel Air. Do not go to Bel Air. Let me say that again. DO NOT GO TO BEL AIR. Ask any flight school in the area and they will tell you about all the members that left Bel Air because they got ripped off some way or another. My good friend went to Bel Air and he left because that. The owner is really agressive in trying to get you to fly and spend money. He wants to see all your money uprfont. He will give a loan to anyone (even if they shouldn't get one). He will cut some crazy deals (He once offered me 10 free hours!), but I still don't think it is worth the hassle. They are working hard on getting a contract with the Chinese for flight training, and I really don't want to be flying around with that language barrier at a busy class D airport where class B aispace starts at 1500ft over the field, and you are surrounded on all sides by water and class C airspace!
Palo Alto
Advantage Aviation (also called Palo Alto Flying Club) is a good club. They have a pretty good size fleet with reasonably priced airplanes. They just remodeled their entire facility, and it looks great. Owner/manager are willing to cut deals. Planes are in pretty good shape.
Shoreline Flying Club. Looks like a good operation. Decent sized fleets and VERY reasonable rates. I love how they have NO MONTHLY DUES. I also like how their prices are based on when you rent. If you fly at night, it is $20-$30 cheaper an hour (because FBO rental planes hardly ever fly at night). It is about $5 an hour cheaper on the weekday's, and fuel price on the weekend's.
Sundance Aviation and Stanford Flying Club. These are two separate operations that I have no experience with. All I ever saw was their rate sheet and that was it. Too expensive, too small, and not for me.
Hayward
California Airways looks like a good school. The biggest thing you have to be careful of is they rent their aircraft "dry". That means that fuel is not included in the price. This could be good and it could be bad. For private training, it is fairly good. You will spend a lot of time in the pattern and therefore you burn less fuel. Basically you can plan a Cessna 172 to burn about 8 gallons per hour of TACH time. During work in the pattern, you can turn .5 to .7 hours of tach for every hour on the hobbs. FYI. Remember, gas costs about $4.50 a gallon, and more in other places. Plan accordingly.
My recommendation would be California Airways (especially if you live near Hayward), West Valley Flying Club (Hayward), Shoreline Flying Club (Palo Alto), or Advantage Aviation (Palo Alto).
Did I mention DO NOT GO TO BEL AIR!
San Carlos
This is my favorite airport, but it also has the craziest airspace!
Diamond Aviation is a good school with a good owner. I really like their facilities and the owner is a business man, so he is willing to make deals. The downside is they have a mostly brand new fleet. Therefore you will be paying about $135 for an airplane there (Brand new Cessna 172SP's). They have a fleet of a few Katana's, but I discourage this place because I highly recommend training in a 1980 era Cessna 152 or Cessna 172. Their planes are just too expensive.
West Valley Flying Club is the largest non-profit flying club in the world. They have everything from Cessna 152/172/182/206 to Piper Cherokee/Warrior/Archer/Arrow/Seminole to Cirrus SR20/SR22 to Tailwheel Citabria's and Pitt's to Diamond Twinstars, and even a Military T-6. They have a huge fleet, and a great selection (they operate out of San Carlos, Palo Alto, and Hayward.) The downside is their dues are extremely expensive ($75 joining fee plus $50 a month, whether you fly or not). Another downside is in addition to their somewhat normal rates, they have a $10 or so dollar and hour fuel charge!! That makes them one of the most expensive places to rent from in the area. The other downside is the owner is NOT a business man. He is a CFI who somehow became the general manager, and is not willing to cut deals.
Bel Air. Do not go to Bel Air. Let me say that again. DO NOT GO TO BEL AIR. Ask any flight school in the area and they will tell you about all the members that left Bel Air because they got ripped off some way or another. My good friend went to Bel Air and he left because that. The owner is really agressive in trying to get you to fly and spend money. He wants to see all your money uprfont. He will give a loan to anyone (even if they shouldn't get one). He will cut some crazy deals (He once offered me 10 free hours!), but I still don't think it is worth the hassle. They are working hard on getting a contract with the Chinese for flight training, and I really don't want to be flying around with that language barrier at a busy class D airport where class B aispace starts at 1500ft over the field, and you are surrounded on all sides by water and class C airspace!
Palo Alto
Advantage Aviation (also called Palo Alto Flying Club) is a good club. They have a pretty good size fleet with reasonably priced airplanes. They just remodeled their entire facility, and it looks great. Owner/manager are willing to cut deals. Planes are in pretty good shape.
Shoreline Flying Club. Looks like a good operation. Decent sized fleets and VERY reasonable rates. I love how they have NO MONTHLY DUES. I also like how their prices are based on when you rent. If you fly at night, it is $20-$30 cheaper an hour (because FBO rental planes hardly ever fly at night). It is about $5 an hour cheaper on the weekday's, and fuel price on the weekend's.
Sundance Aviation and Stanford Flying Club. These are two separate operations that I have no experience with. All I ever saw was their rate sheet and that was it. Too expensive, too small, and not for me.
Hayward
California Airways looks like a good school. The biggest thing you have to be careful of is they rent their aircraft "dry". That means that fuel is not included in the price. This could be good and it could be bad. For private training, it is fairly good. You will spend a lot of time in the pattern and therefore you burn less fuel. Basically you can plan a Cessna 172 to burn about 8 gallons per hour of TACH time. During work in the pattern, you can turn .5 to .7 hours of tach for every hour on the hobbs. FYI. Remember, gas costs about $4.50 a gallon, and more in other places. Plan accordingly.
My recommendation would be California Airways (especially if you live near Hayward), West Valley Flying Club (Hayward), Shoreline Flying Club (Palo Alto), or Advantage Aviation (Palo Alto).
Did I mention DO NOT GO TO BEL AIR!
07-19-2007, 05:57 PM
#6
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awesome!! Thanks for the help guys. I was actually looking at same Palo Alto ones (I'm right in between Hayward and Palo Alto, I'm actually in Fremont). Does anyone know anything about Ahart (its in Livermore)? Anyways, I'll be checking out Hayward and Palo Alto tomorrow!
07-28-2007, 06:37 PM
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07-28-2007, 10:11 PM
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I used to instruct at California Airways. They were not 141 when I was there. That was a awhile ago. Say hi to Steve if he is still running it.
I used to belong to West Valley Flying club too. I was a member when PAO was their only location.
How about Trade Winds Aviation? I think they moved from San Jose To Reid Hillview. I set up their 141 program when I was chief instructor there. I don't know what its like now.
Clubs change from year to year. Ownership may change. Instructors change. Pick your instructor wisely, where ever you go.
I used to belong to West Valley Flying club too. I was a member when PAO was their only location.
How about Trade Winds Aviation? I think they moved from San Jose To Reid Hillview. I set up their 141 program when I was chief instructor there. I don't know what its like now.
Clubs change from year to year. Ownership may change. Instructors change. Pick your instructor wisely, where ever you go.
07-29-2007, 02:56 PM
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