Question about instrument rating
09-18-2023, 06:31 PM
#1
New Hire
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Joined APC: Feb 2023
Posts: 1
Question about instrument rating
Hello, I'm a private pilot who's currently working on their instrument rating. I am only doing online ground school so far. At my current rate, it will take months just to complete ground school. Am I doing something wrong? Is there a better and faster way of completing instrument ground? Programs like ATP claim to give out instrument ratings after just 7 weeks. I don't see how that's possible considering the length of ground material. I study hours a day.
09-18-2023, 08:55 PM
#2
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,205
In the US?
Yes, you should be able to get an IR in 6-8 weeks, if training mostly full time. My logbook says I did it in 5 weeks, but that was a combined IR/CPL 141 course, so not sure how much of that was CPL time building.
People do it in even less time with hustle, pretty sure I had students knock it out in four weeks.
Yes, you should be able to get an IR in 6-8 weeks, if training mostly full time. My logbook says I did it in 5 weeks, but that was a combined IR/CPL 141 course, so not sure how much of that was CPL time building.
People do it in even less time with hustle, pretty sure I had students knock it out in four weeks.
09-18-2023, 10:37 PM
#4
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,291
There are many ways to study, of course. You're to be commended for putting in the time and effort; there are many who do the bare minimum, but you're quite correct that what you're studying now will be the bedrock of everything you do after this, and it's best to absorb the material for now, rather than simply memorize it. That said, there are video courses available today that have excellent graphics (picture being worth a thousand words, and all), explanations, and which may help gain a more through understanding of the material. Numerous vendors offer video courses. Many flight schools offer in-person ground schools.
You don't need to cover everything before you begin your flight training. In fact, it may be more beneficial to cover specifics in the coursework or bookwork in preparation for a given lesson. Study holds before you go do them, for example.
A lot of what you need to know is covered in the AIM. As you go along, your flight instructor should be helping correlate what you've read and watched, with what's being taught in the airplane, such that one concept builds upon another. Ultimately, the goal it three-fold: know the basics and regulations and principles; be able to preflight prep for an instrument flight; ultimately conduct an IFR flight from A to B.
A lot of what you've done in the past for your private is applicable. Aircraft performance and planning, for example. Airspace. Radio work. Stable approaches to a landing. Your instrument rating expands on those things, focuses on procedures and precision, and is more of a mental game. You may find yourself feeling task-saturated, overwhelmed, and perhaps disoriented (manipulating the airplane controls by reference to instruments while navigating, talking, running checklists, etc. It may seem like too much, but perhaps learning to fly did too, at first. You got a handle on that; instrument work is the same way. You can feel like you'll not be ready to begin flight training until you've mastered the books, but if you go that route, you may never get to the flight training.
A not-so-secret nature of your future flying career (whether for fun or for a living) is that you'll spend a lot of time over the upcoming years studying airplanes, systems, regulations, operations specifications, and so on; it doesn't end with a rating or pilot certificate. You may never be so conversant with the material that you can quote it chapter and verse; most of us can't, but you'll learn to focus on areas of emphasis as you move through checkrides and ground schools and various training, without needing to memorize the book. Keep studying: that's an important habit. Try adding to it an online or other video course that you can watch and listen to, as well as reading the books. Don't put off your instrument flight training too long. There are training places that specialize in buckling down and hammering out the instrument rating, but don't rush too fast. It's material you should make sure you understand and retain. At the same time, don't put it off too long. It may seem dry at first, but there's a certain reward to ripping off that hood and finding the runway right in front of you, and in achieving more precision in your flying.
Success in instrument training and flying isn't so much being ace of the base as it is good preparation, and resource management; doing things to reduce your workload. Your instructor should help you get there, one step at a time.
You don't need to cover everything before you begin your flight training. In fact, it may be more beneficial to cover specifics in the coursework or bookwork in preparation for a given lesson. Study holds before you go do them, for example.
A lot of what you need to know is covered in the AIM. As you go along, your flight instructor should be helping correlate what you've read and watched, with what's being taught in the airplane, such that one concept builds upon another. Ultimately, the goal it three-fold: know the basics and regulations and principles; be able to preflight prep for an instrument flight; ultimately conduct an IFR flight from A to B.
A lot of what you've done in the past for your private is applicable. Aircraft performance and planning, for example. Airspace. Radio work. Stable approaches to a landing. Your instrument rating expands on those things, focuses on procedures and precision, and is more of a mental game. You may find yourself feeling task-saturated, overwhelmed, and perhaps disoriented (manipulating the airplane controls by reference to instruments while navigating, talking, running checklists, etc. It may seem like too much, but perhaps learning to fly did too, at first. You got a handle on that; instrument work is the same way. You can feel like you'll not be ready to begin flight training until you've mastered the books, but if you go that route, you may never get to the flight training.
A not-so-secret nature of your future flying career (whether for fun or for a living) is that you'll spend a lot of time over the upcoming years studying airplanes, systems, regulations, operations specifications, and so on; it doesn't end with a rating or pilot certificate. You may never be so conversant with the material that you can quote it chapter and verse; most of us can't, but you'll learn to focus on areas of emphasis as you move through checkrides and ground schools and various training, without needing to memorize the book. Keep studying: that's an important habit. Try adding to it an online or other video course that you can watch and listen to, as well as reading the books. Don't put off your instrument flight training too long. There are training places that specialize in buckling down and hammering out the instrument rating, but don't rush too fast. It's material you should make sure you understand and retain. At the same time, don't put it off too long. It may seem dry at first, but there's a certain reward to ripping off that hood and finding the runway right in front of you, and in achieving more precision in your flying.
Success in instrument training and flying isn't so much being ace of the base as it is good preparation, and resource management; doing things to reduce your workload. Your instructor should help you get there, one step at a time.
09-18-2023, 11:07 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 747 Captain (Ret,)
Posts: 808
Try hard to train at a place that has a fixed base (lower cost) simulator available. Sometimes instructors don't like to use these because instructing in them doesn't add to their flight time for their ATP, sometimes they are paid less. Optimally get a retired airline or military pilot as an instructor.
Optimally, read about the lesson beforehand. Then discuss the lesson with the instructor to be sure that what you think you learned from reading is fact. Then fly the lesson in the simulator. The simulator can repeat lessons that you are weak on till you get it right. Only then take that lesson to the airplane where you can get the context that only the airplane operating in the real world can give.
Optimally, read about the lesson beforehand. Then discuss the lesson with the instructor to be sure that what you think you learned from reading is fact. Then fly the lesson in the simulator. The simulator can repeat lessons that you are weak on till you get it right. Only then take that lesson to the airplane where you can get the context that only the airplane operating in the real world can give.
09-19-2023, 04:47 AM
#6
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,205
A not-so-secret nature of your future flying career (whether for fun or for a living) is that you'll spend a lot of time over the upcoming years studying airplanes, systems, regulations, operations specifications, and so on; it doesn't end with a rating or pilot certificate. You may never be so conversant with the material that you can quote it chapter and verse; most of us can't, but you'll learn to focus on areas of emphasis as you move through checkrides and ground schools and various training, without needing to memorize the book. Keep studying: that's an important habit. Try adding to it an online or other video course that you can watch and listen to, as well as reading the books.
I'm studying for a new type as we speak (for about the sixth time); transport category systems and procedures are more complicated than instrument rating knowledge.
09-19-2023, 06:59 AM
#7
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,291
It's worth noting, I suppose, that once one gets past the commercial pilot certificate and basic multi-engine, most checkrides thereafter, for most people, are instrument checkrides.
The commercial pilot practical test is a redux of the private with a little more added on.
The airline transport pilot (ATP) practical test is an instrument rating checkride to slightly tighter tolerances
Everything thereafter; each line check, proficiency training, type rating, and so forth, is done to ATP practical test standards, and is really more of the same, tested over and over.
As noted above, when you get to the point of seeking ratings for specific airplanes (type ratings), the process turns into a 1-2 month deep-dive into every little detail about that type of airplane, how it works normally, how it is operated when things don't work normally, and how to do both to ATP practical standards, including all the same stuff you've been doing since your initial primary training...stalls and steep turns, and so on. You'll do all the stuff you're working on with your instrument rating: holds, arrivals, departures, instrument approaches with all engines, and instrument approaches with an engine shut down. Engine failures on takeoff, rejected takeoffs, and so forth. You'll do the big-airplane version of "partial panel" with various malfunctions such as loss of airspeed or different electrical problems, and deal with some of the more complex systems like cargo fires, and so on...but always while operating the airplane to ATP standards...which are mostly instrument rating standards, tightened up just a little bit. Lots of study.
The commercial pilot practical test is a redux of the private with a little more added on.
The airline transport pilot (ATP) practical test is an instrument rating checkride to slightly tighter tolerances
Everything thereafter; each line check, proficiency training, type rating, and so forth, is done to ATP practical test standards, and is really more of the same, tested over and over.
As noted above, when you get to the point of seeking ratings for specific airplanes (type ratings), the process turns into a 1-2 month deep-dive into every little detail about that type of airplane, how it works normally, how it is operated when things don't work normally, and how to do both to ATP practical standards, including all the same stuff you've been doing since your initial primary training...stalls and steep turns, and so on. You'll do all the stuff you're working on with your instrument rating: holds, arrivals, departures, instrument approaches with all engines, and instrument approaches with an engine shut down. Engine failures on takeoff, rejected takeoffs, and so forth. You'll do the big-airplane version of "partial panel" with various malfunctions such as loss of airspeed or different electrical problems, and deal with some of the more complex systems like cargo fires, and so on...but always while operating the airplane to ATP standards...which are mostly instrument rating standards, tightened up just a little bit. Lots of study.
09-19-2023, 09:38 AM
#8
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,602
I’ll add another suggestion. Make sure you do your instrument training in a glass cockpit trainer. Most schools investing in newer equipment will have a Garmin G1000 suit for the flight instruments. Even better are the newer ones with a better integrated autopilot. The older ones seem to have a non Garmin autopilot that doesn’t really work well with the G1000. Download a Garmin 1000 user guide and any POH for your trainer that has the advanced cockpit info as part of the manual. Then do a deep dive into the flight/Nav system. It’s very dense and will only make real sense when you use it. BTW, interview the instructor and ask how familiar they are with the glass and how much teaching they have done with it. More experienced the better.
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