LeoSV

What is the difference in 141 vs 61? Are there limitations as to what job you can do with one or the other?

emsgoof

I know the cost is similar around here. $125 / hr for an Archer III or a C172R, $139 for a Nav III C172, $185 for a Seminole, and $195 for a Trinidad, and $45 / hr for instructors.
My only alternative is to go to the other side of the city for $10 / hr less (1 hour drive in the *rare* case of no traffic, which rules out flying during the week any) which would be eaten up by fuel costs to drive there. (Instructor costs are also similar). The school I'm at now doesn't have different rates for 61/141 students, so I'm taking the 141 track as far as my $$$ will let me!

emsgoof

No. The limitations on Part 141 training are that for the most part you have to follow an approved syllabus, which means you don't have the flexibility to skip ahead to something else if you're having troubles, then coming back to what you had issues with later. You have to keep bashing your head until you get it figured out! The licenses are the same in the end!

LeoSV

oh ok, thank you!!

CessnaCitationX

I'm looking into getting my PPL sometime in the near future. What did you do to get your cert for less money? What did you pay for aircraft rent and instructor? What type of airport did you fly out of? What did you do (e.g. study) before you started taking lessons?

mcartier713

i joined a flying club... pretty much the more money you have, the more money you save. i "bought" a share in a beech sundowner (my avatar) and i 'rent' it for $15/hour dry.. then i pay for the fuel (which comes out to be around $45/hour wet) the sundowner is pretty much like a low-winged 172. i love it for what its worth. my instructor was another cool deal. he already has a low rate, $26/hour, but if you pay him a lump sum in the beginning he goes down and adds a perk. so i paid him $1200 for ALL my training, in the air and on the ground for as long as it took to get my PPL. My plane is ramped at Downtown Kansas City airport, which is a towered class D airport. Needless to say it was a great experience to fly outta a controlled airport. uhhhh... as far as what i did before i started, nothing. i read a LOT on here about what routes to take between FBO and 141 and blah blah blah and I just found something that worked for me and worked with my wallet.

LeoSV

Are certain school either 141 or 61, or can you just tell them that you want to learn under 141 rules or 61 rules?

Slice

Most are one or the other. I'm a Part 61 guy and think it's the way to go personally. Training options are more flexible and quality of training is no less than the a 141 program(school dependent of course).

aerospacepilot

I started working on my private pilots license in February 06 and finished in the end of June 06. Fuel prices were about the same then as they are now. And fortunately, I kept meticulous records, so let me break down my costs.

I got my license at 58.8 hours and I spent exactly $8625.23 (every cent accounted for including airplane, instructor, flight school dues, books and all supplies).

• I paid $4472.42 for the airplane. That averages to $76 an hour for the airplane. I flew at two different schools (one out in Jeffco (Colorado), and the other in San Carlos, California)). I used a 1980 Cessna 172.
• I paid $2805.00 for instruction (flight and ground). My instructor costs $35 an hour.
• I paid $1347.81 for all supplies/miscallaneous. This included about $300 in books, a $100 written test, $75 medical, $400 headset, $350 flight test, $39 AOPA membership, and flight school dues of $30 a month.

This is what I recommend.
1. Do your training in a 1980 era Cessna 152 or Cessna 172. I chose a Cessna 172 because it was going to be the plane I would fly after I got my license. If you are really strapped for money, you could use the Cessna 152 (it is usually $20 an hour less, or about $1,000 less for your license). But remember it is smaller, slower, and will require a transition to a Cessna 172 if you ever want to take a few passengers.
DO NOT fly a brand new Cessna 172 unless you have money to burn. $125 an hour for an airplane is REDICULOUS! Having flown both the old and new 172's, there is basically no difference. It is basically the same aircraft, just the newer ones cost about $35 an hour more on average, and that adds up to over $2,000 over the course of your license. Fly the 1980 era Cessna 152 or 172.

2. Do your training part 61. Part 141 schools are overpriced and it is not worth the extra five hours you "may" be able to save. Basically NO ONE gets their license at 35 hours. So the 40 hours to get part 61 is no big deal. Part 61 gives you lots of freedom to train in the order that is right for you. Plus you have a lot of flexibility if you decide to change schools.

BUDGET
Here is how I would plan a budget for flight training.
Assume it will take 60 hours. The national average is between 60 and 70 hours. If you fly 2-3 times a week, you can normally go under 60 hours. It also depends on where you are flying. If you fly out of busy towered airports where Class B airspace begins at 1,500 feet over the field, it will take more hours than flying at a non-towered airport in the middle of nowhere. So plan accordingly, but 60 hours is a good baseline number.

Look up current prices for the airplane you want to fly and your instructor. Once you have these numbers, multiply the airplane cost by 60. Instructor cost is a bit trickier. About 10 hours of your private training will be solo. So you will have about 50 hours of flight instruction. For ground instruction, I take the number of flight instruction hours and multiply it by 0.5. So I would assume about 25 hours of ground instruction. This covers all those pre/post flight briefings, as well as dedicated ground lessons, reviews, written and oral test prep, and all the miscallaneous time spent with a flight instructor while not flying.

Add in flight school dues. Some schools charge them, others don't. They shouldn't be more than $30 a month or so. Some also have joining dues. Be sure to account for these. If you fly 2-3 times a month, I would recommend budgeting for 4 months. If you fly once a week, it is more like 8 months or more.

Budget for supplies and miscallaneous costs
-Books for ground school. Mine cost about $300 total (for a reference)
-3rd class medical for $75, or 1st class for $100.
-Flight test for $350. Some examiners vary (my glider flight test was $250, but I would say $350 is normal)
-Written exam for $90, or $80 if you are an AOPA member.
-AOPA membership for $39. If you are going to be a pilot, you should join AOPA. Check them out at AOPA.org. They are a great organization and will make your flying life go so much better!
-Headset. You could get a used one off eBay for $50. A new standard headset costs about $100-$150. If you want noise cancelling (I highly recommend this), budget between $300-$1000. $400 will give you a great middle of the road ANR headset. The Bose cost $1000.

Add these all up and get a budget!
I say it is typical to spend about $8,000 on a private pilots license. This assumes 60 hours, flying 2-3 times a week, and a 1980 era cessna 172.
Hope this helps.

the King

That's bull. You do not have to "bash your head against the wall" when you struggle. That's an instructor-student issue. The instructor should see the need for a "change of scenery" like flying with an different person or focusing on other topics, etc.

I agree that doing a PPL under 141 has fewer advantages, but Commercial is where you make that up if you're the 50 hour PPL guy. You get your license generally 20 to 30 hours earlier and could be 50 if you're a quick study. That's time to get your CFI and multi-addon and get paid instead of paying.