KennyG1700

Hi everyone I’m new to the forums and have been trying to learn as much as possible from all the knowledgeable people on here. I am 22 and will be graduating from PennState with a BS in Finance. I am seriously considering getting into aviation field, but it seems that it can be pretty pricey to get all your required ratings. I’m new to this so I could be totally wrong, but here is what I've come up with.

Here’s my question:

Purchase a low cost single engine plane (i.e. Cessna 150) for around 20-25K. (Loan + insurance would run about $200 a month)

Get you PPL @ 30$/hr (give or take) for instruction for aprox 60 hours.
Ground school for aprox $200.

PPL cost = $2000

Now that you have your own plane you can build time as you wish. Spend a year or so building time up as you please without worrying about costs to rent a plane.

In the meantime get necessary ratings (i.e. instrument, multi, commercial ect..). Correct me if im wrong but from what i find, you can get your commercial, multi and instrument ratings for between 8-9K.
Buy any additional multi time if needed... 1-2K

So when its all said and done you will have 1000-1500 TT in your own plane with all necessary ratings for 14-15K tops...
I know a lot of you advocate getting a CFI and instruct, but that is not for everyone...

That sounds a lot better than spending 45-50K on flight school/academes.

Feel free to flame away lol

172capt

Dont forget Insurance Fuel Maint and Annual. Oh and a new engine somewhere in there.

KennyG1700

Let me rephrase:

Assuming you have a loan for $30,000, the $35,000 price to buy the airplane on a loan for 10 years at a 10% interest rate.(loans available in 20 years as well to defer cost even more, plus 10% is a overstated rate for an aircraft loan)

Just a basic idea

$250/month for the loan payment.
$100/month for insurance
$50/month for tie down
$125/month for maintenance reserve (part of the fixed cost)
Result: $525/month in fixed costs
We consider the maintenance reserve part of the fixed cost. Again, assuming 1500 flying hours every 12 months


The hourly cost to operate is determined by dividing the engine reserve ($7.00 per hour). Fuel at $25 per hour. Totaling $32 per flight hour.



So here are the numbers.


Your Fixed Cost comes out to $525 per month (see table above).
Your Hourly Cost is $32 (fuel @ $25/hour + engine reserve @ $7/hour).

Ewfflyer

Instructors will cost you at least $25/hr For your private, including ground time expect at least 100hrs with them. Also, for commercial, you need a complex aircraft(retractable gear, constant speed prop, and flaps). You are right, if you can afford the initial costs of buying an aircraft, you could come out ahead in the end, but there's plenty of things that could end up costing you more, like engines, and other repairs etc.... Insurance in aviation is a bigger scam than any other industry, so plan on paying a lot there too. All in all, don't plan on getting into aviation and being rich. You can live a descent life, but in the beggining, you'll be putting more money in than getting out. I don't mean this as a scare tactic or whatever, I just don't want people getting blind sided by the fact that pilots don't make that much money like they used to at lower experience levels.

Ewfflyer

1500hrs a year, I'm a freight pilot and I flew 1300. Unless you really don't have anything better to do, 1500hrs in one year is insane. I've never heard of anyone or any plane doing that to my knowledge.

I didn't mention this in my other post, but after awhile, your 150 time won't mean that much to the commercial market. You need to have some high-performance, and twin-engine experience. Most airlines right now require around 100-300hrs of multi alone.

Welcome to Aviation

172capt

Ok lets retry this....

A your payment of 250 a month is wrong because 250*120=30,000 did you all of a sudden get a intrest free loan.

So lets say 10 is high and go with 7.5 so with 30,000 loan at 7.5% you would be paying 356.11 a month we will say 350 to make things easier.

Tie down Ill agree with somewhat because 50 will be good for your home airport but what about when you got on a X-Country so we will add another 50.

Ok maintenance reserve you have listed is about enough to pay for your first oil change. So lets rework this the only fixed Maintenance reserve you should have on fixed is about 75 a month for that annual you have to get. Why you ask well because maintenance all depends on how much you fly but a annual comes up no matter what.


350/Month for the loan payment.
100/Month for Insurance (Ill agree with this figure)
100/Month Tie-Down
75/Month Annual Reserve
625/Month in Fixed costs.

Now lets get to the hourly cost or what we call the Direct operating cost.

Fuel 7 GPH at national average of about 3.50 (if you buy self serve)

Oil 4.50 a quart and you will put one in about every 8 hours.

Oil change every 50 Hours at about 130 per oil change 130/50=2.60 Hour oil change reserve.

Ok routine maintenance reserve averaged at about one half the fuel+oil cost per hour. So in this case (24.50/2)+.56=12.50(to make it easy)

Now the engine overhaul reserve. Average engine overhaul is about $10,000. Every 2000 or so hours so 5.00 and hour.


24.50/Hour for fuel.
0.56/Hour for Oil.
2.60/Hour Oil Change Reserve.
12.50/Hour for routine Maint reserve.
5.00/Hour for engine overhaul reserve.
45.16/Hour for DOC or Direct operating costs.

So now for the total. Lets say you fly 75 hours a month (which is a hell of alot of flying!)

(Fixed operating costs/Number of hour flown per month)+DOC=Total operating costs per hour.

So 625/75=8.33

8.33+45.16=53.49

So the total costs per hour to fly your 150 is going to be about 53.50 (don't forget this will change each month depending on how much you fly)

So PPL Lets assume you do everything in the least about of time.

20 Solo=1070
20 Dual at 30 Hour for an instructor=1670

Tests and Examiner Fees=400

Total PPL=3140

Not trying to put you down or anything just want you to realize there is alot of costs in owning a aircraft and dont want you to jump into something without fulling realzing what you are getting into. Because when that first Maint bill comes it kills. Just today had to get a Magneto looked at and it looks like its going to cost about 600 to get it overhauled and put back in. So aircrafts are expensive just think before you buy! If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

KennyG1700

I cannot PM for some reason so I will post on here..
Thanks for the post! With all that being said, if im looking to build up hours and get all my necessary ratings (commercial, Multi, Instrument), would this be a logical way to go about doing that? Also would an airline frown upon having a majority of your hours in a cessna 150/172?

Thanks

172capt

Well you will only be able to do your Private and Insturment training in your 150 (assuming your 150 is rated for insturment flight) which is more costs to be associated with that. Also any time building that is necessary to get to your 250 hours for commercial. So you would still have to find a aircraft to rent for your MEL and SEL. So if I was you I would not buy this aircraft. First its going to cost you alot and older planes are maint hogs. Second Single engine time is single engine time. If you really want to build time get paid doing it. If you want a cheap way to get your license check this site out a good deal in my opinion even though i know no one that has done it.

http://www.vanbortel.com/2007/Ultimate-Skyhawk.pdf

rickair7777

Regional airlines hire folks every day who have nothing but cessna time. However, the vast majority of those folks were flight instructors, and afew were traffic watch, pipeline, skydiver pilots, etc.

The potential drawback to what you're proposing is that all those other pilots are PROFESSIONAL pilots. The airline sees that they have experience execrsing their judgement in a professional environment. They had to juggle conflicting Wx, Mx, economic, employer, and customer pressures on a daily basis. Your plan would create a 1500 private pilot who only knows how to fly when he wants to, not when he HAS to.

With that being said, people do get hired by doing what you're talking about, especially when entry-level pilots are in demand (like today). Be advised that if the job market changes, pilots with no professional flying experience would be the first ones eliminaed from consideration.

Also when people do this (often SE cfi's who need to get their ME time), they usually find a beat-up airplane with a just enough time left on the engine to get the hours they need...they fly it, hope it doesn't break, and then sell it asap before it does break. Some risk here obviously...

KennyG1700

Thanks for your help guys!