Retirement Compensation
06-30-2024, 07:27 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 296
I have to say that it doesn't matter where I go, I'll be making much better money with much better benifits. Thats a win win for me. The downside is i'll be away from home while ive been used to going home and seeing my family at least for a couple hours daily. You guys mentioned how Flex has ignored the more senior ranks, where I currently work has done the same.
06-30-2024, 08:05 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 273
I've never worked for Netjets, but you can expect to be gone anywhere from 6-8 days at a time with Flexjet, depending on your fleet and program, which will surely take some adjusting for your family for sure. It works great for some, and not so well for others. And regarding your second point, the biggest determining factor of Flexjet's management philosophy is the feelings and desires of a single person, and as long as that remains in place, the company, it's pilots, it's operations staff, everyone, does what that person wants, regardless of any other external factor. If they feel like investing in senior pilots isn't a priority, it just... won't happen. If they feel like producing a months long PR campaign to solicit pilot input on the future of the company and then won't listen to any of their contributions, then that's what happens. It is what it is, but there's no way around the reality of that management structure and the limits it places on the company, in my experience and opinion.
Netjets CEO wishes he had the same options as flex with regards to forcing the pilot group to bend to his wishes but having a union prohibits that. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t try to undermine the union any chance he gets.
I wonder if any of the more senior pilots at flex that voted out the union are regretting that. I bet they would have like to see the same percentage raise as the newer pilots.
07-01-2024, 09:15 AM
#63
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 50
to HeliJoe: we got good healthcare here. $99/paycheck for a family. Max out of pocket for the PPO Plan 1 is $3000 for the entire family and $1000 deductible. Or $33/paycheck for individual and $1500 out of pocket $500 deductible for individual. Dental is $5/paycheck individual $16/paycheck family. My child has had $800 covered so far this year and I’ve paid $81 with sick visit/Rx deductibles. Flew with someone recently and their spouse is a Major airline pilot. They are both on the Flexjet plan because it’s better here than at a major airline. I can’t speak for Netjets but when I interviewed there, it was zero cost.
Feel free to listen to the former pilots here that still like to frequent the forums. I’ve known plenty of project vision guys who have sadly left and it’s frustrating to hear that their voices weren’t heard. I won’t argue that we don’t have representation here. There’s no pilot committee, no hotel committee. But when I have issues I call the horse’s mouth. I skip the phone tree and call the managers/FODMs cell phones directly. I stayed in a ****e hotel this year and I sent in a review through our Tailwinds app. And it was immediately being considered to be removed from our list per the email I received. YMMV
They are announcing increasing pay for year 9-20 this month (probably effective Q1 2025). They already increased year 1-3.
Some of the pilots they recently ****ed off were pretty much all of ILC because they got shorted a pay raise, among other segments of our pilot group. You’ll hear their stories here. It’s a conundrum because I am seeing a lot of retired airline FOs on the road and yet they won’t be able to secure an ILC slot due to age requirements. So I’m not really sure how that will play out with Kenn’s ILC growth plan and aircraft orders, ILC attrition and the some of the new hires average age.
Feel free to listen to the former pilots here that still like to frequent the forums. I’ve known plenty of project vision guys who have sadly left and it’s frustrating to hear that their voices weren’t heard. I won’t argue that we don’t have representation here. There’s no pilot committee, no hotel committee. But when I have issues I call the horse’s mouth. I skip the phone tree and call the managers/FODMs cell phones directly. I stayed in a ****e hotel this year and I sent in a review through our Tailwinds app. And it was immediately being considered to be removed from our list per the email I received. YMMV
They are announcing increasing pay for year 9-20 this month (probably effective Q1 2025). They already increased year 1-3.
Some of the pilots they recently ****ed off were pretty much all of ILC because they got shorted a pay raise, among other segments of our pilot group. You’ll hear their stories here. It’s a conundrum because I am seeing a lot of retired airline FOs on the road and yet they won’t be able to secure an ILC slot due to age requirements. So I’m not really sure how that will play out with Kenn’s ILC growth plan and aircraft orders, ILC attrition and the some of the new hires average age.
07-01-2024, 01:14 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 273
07-01-2024, 01:51 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 296
to HeliJoe: we got good healthcare here.
I stayed in a ****e hotel this year and I sent in a review through our Tailwinds app. And it was immediately being considered to be removed from our list per the email I received. YMMV
They are announcing increasing pay for year 9-20 this month (probably effective Q1 2025). They already increased year 1-3.
Some of the pilots they recently ****ed off were pretty much all of ILC because they got shorted a pay raise, among other segments of our pilot group. You’ll hear their stories here. It’s a conundrum because I am seeing a lot of retired airline FOs on the road and yet they won’t be able to secure an ILC slot due to age requirements. So I’m not really sure how that will play out with Kenn’s ILC growth plan and aircraft orders, ILC attrition and the some of the new hires average age.
I stayed in a ****e hotel this year and I sent in a review through our Tailwinds app. And it was immediately being considered to be removed from our list per the email I received. YMMV
They are announcing increasing pay for year 9-20 this month (probably effective Q1 2025). They already increased year 1-3.
Some of the pilots they recently ****ed off were pretty much all of ILC because they got shorted a pay raise, among other segments of our pilot group. You’ll hear their stories here. It’s a conundrum because I am seeing a lot of retired airline FOs on the road and yet they won’t be able to secure an ILC slot due to age requirements. So I’m not really sure how that will play out with Kenn’s ILC growth plan and aircraft orders, ILC attrition and the some of the new hires average age.
I only ever reported 3 hotels via tailwinds and always got a prompt response from MT. I never saw two of them again. One of them was during the great Bedbug Fiasco of 2023 in HPN, and when I tried to deny the hotel assignment a week later I was told I wasn't allowed to do that. So, like you, YMMV.
Leaving out years 4-8 makes sense AT THE MOMENT considering most of the seniority list is sub 3 or post year 9, but what happens when the guys in YOS 1-3 get to year 4 and nothing happens? Not a good look for retention.
Everyone who is in ILC is very much aware of the fact that they could take their type down the road to their local 91 shop and make more, as everyone is flying well below market rates. People like to talk about the 35% bonus until you get into the program and realize no one ever comes close to making it. The schedule stability supposed to be provided by ILC isn't as stable as it is supposed to be, especially in the 650, where you have to be available to augment on your 'days off'. Knowing all that and then not getting a legitimate raise and then finding out that a Year 1 SIC could be making within ~$5k of what you're making in a Gulfstream? Aircraft down for heavy MX? Good luck getting any % of your bonus that Q, even if you've been flying your lines consistently. Yeah there are a LOT of angry people who feel undervalued and taken advantage of, who are making it known with their feet.
07-01-2024, 07:46 PM
#66
New Hire
Joined APC: Dec 2023
Posts: 3
Healthcare was pretty dang good, no argument from me. Cheap and good coverage. And if you go to ILC the company covers you at 100% via a stipend, you just pay for your dependents. Better than everywhere else I've worked.
I only ever reported 3 hotels via tailwinds and always got a prompt response from MT. I never saw two of them again. One of them was during the great Bedbug Fiasco of 2023 in HPN, and when I tried to deny the hotel assignment a week later I was told I wasn't allowed to do that. So, like you, YMMV.
Leaving out years 4-8 makes sense AT THE MOMENT considering most of the seniority list is sub 3 or post year 9, but what happens when the guys in YOS 1-3 get to year 4 and nothing happens? Not a good look for retention.
Everyone who is in ILC is very much aware of the fact that they could take their type down the road to their local 91 shop and make more, as everyone is flying well below market rates. People like to talk about the 35% bonus until you get into the program and realize no one ever comes close to making it. The schedule stability supposed to be provided by ILC isn't as stable as it is supposed to be, especially in the 650, where you have to be available to augment on your 'days off'. Knowing all that and then not getting a legitimate raise and then finding out that a Year 1 SIC could be making within ~$5k of what you're making in a Gulfstream? Aircraft down for heavy MX? Good luck getting any % of your bonus that Q, even if you've been flying your lines consistently. Yeah there are a LOT of angry people who feel undervalued and taken advantage of, who are making it known with their feet.
I only ever reported 3 hotels via tailwinds and always got a prompt response from MT. I never saw two of them again. One of them was during the great Bedbug Fiasco of 2023 in HPN, and when I tried to deny the hotel assignment a week later I was told I wasn't allowed to do that. So, like you, YMMV.
Leaving out years 4-8 makes sense AT THE MOMENT considering most of the seniority list is sub 3 or post year 9, but what happens when the guys in YOS 1-3 get to year 4 and nothing happens? Not a good look for retention.
Everyone who is in ILC is very much aware of the fact that they could take their type down the road to their local 91 shop and make more, as everyone is flying well below market rates. People like to talk about the 35% bonus until you get into the program and realize no one ever comes close to making it. The schedule stability supposed to be provided by ILC isn't as stable as it is supposed to be, especially in the 650, where you have to be available to augment on your 'days off'. Knowing all that and then not getting a legitimate raise and then finding out that a Year 1 SIC could be making within ~$5k of what you're making in a Gulfstream? Aircraft down for heavy MX? Good luck getting any % of your bonus that Q, even if you've been flying your lines consistently. Yeah there are a LOT of angry people who feel undervalued and taken advantage of, who are making it known with their feet.
07-02-2024, 09:42 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 226
So since you all have nothing better to do then to wait for my response, here we go.....Couple of points, I did 2 years as an FO and year 3 starting as CA, I think that is more than realistic. This is just based on Hard money, no bonuses added however since we are talking long term, Flex has an $18k per year retention bonus starting year 1 (paid out in year 3)
Yr NJ FLEX
1 105k $156k + 18K
2 110k* 163k + 18K *Number wasnt provided, just used 1/2 way between 1 and 3
3 (CA) 188k 170k +18K
5 202k 172k +18K
10 u 240k 237k +18k**
14 275k 241k +18k** T
**Year 10 and 14 are based on the new rates that were brought up during the last call. They ONLY show "Total Compensation" for both Current and Proposed. They didnt mention any difference in "Bonus" so the increase is assumed to be on hard pay. This does not include and of thee bonuses (except annual longevity bonus). On the call they didnt show year 14 however I used the smaller increase to year 15 vs. the larger increase at year 10. Just trying to be fair people!
Also keep in mind, NJ $7k bonus after year 14, at that time you would have been paid out over $215k in longevity bonus.
Regarding catering, glad they are doing better but you will never convince me its better than "3 swipes a day". Enjoy your Longhorn Steak, I prefer Capital Grilles though.
Texas Longhorn- If you could not figure out how to use Doordash and get the meal you wanted but instead had to call and complain about catering, thats a you problem, not a company problem. I assume you were on ILC, you sure seem to have spoken to a lot of Phenom pilots to know how often they are getting their standing orders, I have spoken to a few ILC guys in my time and funny thing is the conversation never went to complaining about the catering. Im sorry you were so disenchanted, best of luck to your new company.
Yr NJ FLEX
1 105k $156k + 18K
2 110k* 163k + 18K *Number wasnt provided, just used 1/2 way between 1 and 3
3 (CA) 188k 170k +18K
5 202k 172k +18K
10 u 240k 237k +18k**
14 275k 241k +18k** T
**Year 10 and 14 are based on the new rates that were brought up during the last call. They ONLY show "Total Compensation" for both Current and Proposed. They didnt mention any difference in "Bonus" so the increase is assumed to be on hard pay. This does not include and of thee bonuses (except annual longevity bonus). On the call they didnt show year 14 however I used the smaller increase to year 15 vs. the larger increase at year 10. Just trying to be fair people!
Also keep in mind, NJ $7k bonus after year 14, at that time you would have been paid out over $215k in longevity bonus.
Regarding catering, glad they are doing better but you will never convince me its better than "3 swipes a day". Enjoy your Longhorn Steak, I prefer Capital Grilles though.
Texas Longhorn- If you could not figure out how to use Doordash and get the meal you wanted but instead had to call and complain about catering, thats a you problem, not a company problem. I assume you were on ILC, you sure seem to have spoken to a lot of Phenom pilots to know how often they are getting their standing orders, I have spoken to a few ILC guys in my time and funny thing is the conversation never went to complaining about the catering. Im sorry you were so disenchanted, best of luck to your new company.
07-02-2024, 12:07 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 273
So since you all have nothing better to do then to wait for my response, here we go.....Couple of points, I did 2 years as an FO and year 3 starting as CA, I think that is more than realistic. This is just based on Hard money, no bonuses added however since we are talking long term, Flex has an $18k per year retention bonus starting year 1 (paid out in year 3)
Yr NJ FLEX
1 105k $156k + 18K
2 110k* 163k + 18K *Number wasnt provided, just used 1/2 way between 1 and 3
3 (CA) 188k 170k +18K
5 202k 172k +18K
10 u 240k 237k +18k**
14 275k 241k +18k** T
**Year 10 and 14 are based on the new rates that were brought up during the last call. They ONLY show "Total Compensation" for both Current and Proposed. They didnt mention any difference in "Bonus" so the increase is assumed to be on hard pay. This does not include and of thee bonuses (except annual longevity bonus). On the call they didnt show year 14 however I used the smaller increase to year 15 vs. the larger increase at year 10. Just trying to be fair people!
Also keep in mind, NJ $7k bonus after year 14, at that time you would have been paid out over $215k in longevity bonus.
Regarding catering, glad they are doing better but you will never convince me its better than "3 swipes a day". Enjoy your Longhorn Steak, I prefer Capital Grilles though.
Texas Longhorn- If you could not figure out how to use Doordash and get the meal you wanted but instead had to call and complain about catering, thats a you problem, not a company problem. I assume you were on ILC, you sure seem to have spoken to a lot of Phenom pilots to know how often they are getting their standing orders, I have spoken to a few ILC guys in my time and funny thing is the conversation never went to complaining about the catering. Im sorry you were so disenchanted, best of luck to your new company.
Yr NJ FLEX
1 105k $156k + 18K
2 110k* 163k + 18K *Number wasnt provided, just used 1/2 way between 1 and 3
3 (CA) 188k 170k +18K
5 202k 172k +18K
10 u 240k 237k +18k**
14 275k 241k +18k** T
**Year 10 and 14 are based on the new rates that were brought up during the last call. They ONLY show "Total Compensation" for both Current and Proposed. They didnt mention any difference in "Bonus" so the increase is assumed to be on hard pay. This does not include and of thee bonuses (except annual longevity bonus). On the call they didnt show year 14 however I used the smaller increase to year 15 vs. the larger increase at year 10. Just trying to be fair people!
Also keep in mind, NJ $7k bonus after year 14, at that time you would have been paid out over $215k in longevity bonus.
Regarding catering, glad they are doing better but you will never convince me its better than "3 swipes a day". Enjoy your Longhorn Steak, I prefer Capital Grilles though.
Texas Longhorn- If you could not figure out how to use Doordash and get the meal you wanted but instead had to call and complain about catering, thats a you problem, not a company problem. I assume you were on ILC, you sure seem to have spoken to a lot of Phenom pilots to know how often they are getting their standing orders, I have spoken to a few ILC guys in my time and funny thing is the conversation never went to complaining about the catering. Im sorry you were so disenchanted, best of luck to your new company.
Thanks for getting back and posting the numbers you said you would. Not sure why you cherry picked the numbers you posted instead of just posting the scales like I did so we could make a true comparison. Are you willing to do that? Why did you not post what the payscales would be in 5 years like I did? Does your scale not increase over time? You referenced the $7k longevity that’s for an FO not for Capt. You also showed year 10 and 14 as what is being talked about. Not hard numbers. What are they right now?
I can post a year for year salary only chart assuming upgrade at year 3 up until year 14 of someone hired today and we can compare real numbers(not what is being discussed on calls).
I know you are proud of the $18k bonus but I hope you know your boss has shown that he is more than happy to strip your bonuses when times are tough. Yes you can say that fdp is fleet dependent and is variable but it also cannot be thrown out the window at will, you can’t say the same with your bonuses.
So for all your overnights you guys are staying in cities that have capital grills?? Nice
Maybe you haven’t seen my question but I have asked a couple times about your insurance. Is the $30 a check for only you or for your whole family.
07-02-2024, 12:46 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 296
Texas Longhorn- If you could not figure out how to use Doordash and get the meal you wanted but instead had to call and complain about catering, thats a you problem, not a company problem. I assume you were on ILC, you sure seem to have spoken to a lot of Phenom pilots to know how often they are getting their standing orders, I have spoken to a few ILC guys in my time and funny thing is the conversation never went to complaining about the catering. Im sorry you were so disenchanted, best of luck to your new company.
[QUOTE=TexasLonghorn;3815732]
I've definitely flown with people who would call and complain about the food, especially in the Praetor. I had a standing order and towards the end would get it maybe 60-70% of the time but it was less of an issue in ILC because our cabin servers would order food for the crew for the next day anyways. When I created the standing order in the Phenom I got it maybe 20-30% of the time, the rest would be Aire Culinare Chef Specials, but when I went to ILC I started getting it more often to the point that it became an issue because the company would send my standing order instead of what was requested by the CS. I asked for it to be pulled more than once with no success. It didn't bother me too much because my standing order was simple and something I enjoyed but there were times when I'd ask for something specific and not get it, which was always a little annoying.
07-02-2024, 02:30 PM
#70
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2023
Posts: 49
So since you all have nothing better to do then to wait for my response, here we go.....Couple of points, I did 2 years as an FO and year 3 starting as CA, I think that is more than realistic. This is just based on Hard money, no bonuses added however since we are talking long term, Flex has an $18k per year retention bonus starting year 1 (paid out in year 3)
Yr NJ FLEX
1 105k $156k + 18K
2 110k* 163k + 18K *Number wasnt provided, just used 1/2 way between 1 and 3
3 (CA) 188k 170k +18K
5 202k 172k +18K
10 u 240k 237k +18k**
14 275k 241k +18k** T
**Year 10 and 14 are based on the new rates that were brought up during the last call. They ONLY show "Total Compensation" for both Current and Proposed. They didnt mention any difference in "Bonus" so the increase is assumed to be on hard pay. This does not include and of thee bonuses (except annual longevity bonus). On the call they didnt show year 14 however I used the smaller increase to year 15 vs. the larger increase at year 10. Just trying to be fair people!
Also keep in mind, NJ $7k bonus after year 14, at that time you would have been paid out over $215k in longevity bonus.
Regarding catering, glad they are doing better but you will never convince me its better than "3 swipes a day". Enjoy your Longhorn Steak, I prefer Capital Grilles though.
Texas Longhorn- If you could not figure out how to use Doordash and get the meal you wanted but instead had to call and complain about catering, thats a you problem, not a company problem. I assume you were on ILC, you sure seem to have spoken to a lot of Phenom pilots to know how often they are getting their standing orders, I have spoken to a few ILC guys in my time and funny thing is the conversation never went to complaining about the catering. Im sorry you were so disenchanted, best of luck to your new company.
Yr NJ FLEX
1 105k $156k + 18K
2 110k* 163k + 18K *Number wasnt provided, just used 1/2 way between 1 and 3
3 (CA) 188k 170k +18K
5 202k 172k +18K
10 u 240k 237k +18k**
14 275k 241k +18k** T
**Year 10 and 14 are based on the new rates that were brought up during the last call. They ONLY show "Total Compensation" for both Current and Proposed. They didnt mention any difference in "Bonus" so the increase is assumed to be on hard pay. This does not include and of thee bonuses (except annual longevity bonus). On the call they didnt show year 14 however I used the smaller increase to year 15 vs. the larger increase at year 10. Just trying to be fair people!
Also keep in mind, NJ $7k bonus after year 14, at that time you would have been paid out over $215k in longevity bonus.
Regarding catering, glad they are doing better but you will never convince me its better than "3 swipes a day". Enjoy your Longhorn Steak, I prefer Capital Grilles though.
Texas Longhorn- If you could not figure out how to use Doordash and get the meal you wanted but instead had to call and complain about catering, thats a you problem, not a company problem. I assume you were on ILC, you sure seem to have spoken to a lot of Phenom pilots to know how often they are getting their standing orders, I have spoken to a few ILC guys in my time and funny thing is the conversation never went to complaining about the catering. Im sorry you were so disenchanted, best of luck to your new company.
I don't know why you are arguing with a NJ, former and current Flex pilots
You sound like a management tool, or just a tool pilot. You probably post daily stupid pictures of being on the road on flexbook.
You probably make stupid jokes while taxing in about the NetJets pilots and or planes on the ramp that the other guy laughes at because he/she feels bad for you
Also the 18K isn't always 18K. There are caveats to it:
Have to work x days in the quarter, also need to do the max contribution
So can a new hire do the max?
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