TexasLonghorn

All fine and good, but with the seniority list being majority post 2022 at this point, you've got a large contingent of pilots who are still deep into the honeymoon phase. How many here were hired when Project Lift was being conducted and people were having to drive in excess of 14 hours to make it to their crew bases, or went through Project Vision and were told consistently that we could suggest whatever we wanted but management made it very clear that they were not in negotiations and had every right to ignore pilot input (any guesses as to how that went?)? Talk to the top 35% of the seniority group who have been at Flex for longer than 3-4 years and you're going to get a lot of disgruntled pilots who are fed up with the inability to have management input. Basically to a person, all of those who were involved in helping represent the pilots during Project Vision have all moved on to different companies, myself included. I think Flex is a stable option, and a good option, but there are plenty of pilots who use it as a revolving door for a reason. That's the whole impetus behind implementing the 5000 hr requirement for hiring minimums. It feels disingenuous to portray Netjets as this post-apocalyptic hellscape of singularly disgruntled pilots while parroting management lines about Flexjet pilots being the highest paid and happiest in the industry. The accounting gymnastics required to do that don't support it being true. For reference my W2 wages box 1 as a year 3 CA on the Phenom (with IP override) and in ILC in 2023 were $171,506.20. Not bad by any stretch of the imagination, but certainly not industry leading.

Deserthusker

[QUOTE=followingdreams;3815557]I included 30% FDP in NJ and I included the 10% in Flex, also offered to use the new payscale for NJ and add 30% for FDP we come up to $136,000 1st year for NJ, $165,000 first year for Flex. Im way more transparent then any of you that just complain about my math without offering any of your own math. I know, your next comment will be "what about overtime, what about getting home late what about....." stop already! I also did not include the $18,000 bonus Flex pays in those figures or the per diem they keep or the parking allowence. If you prefer NJ pay package, wonderful! Just dont sit here and picket saying how poorly you are paid, while also saying you clearly are the highest paid.

For those of you looking for jobs, just read thru both Forums, which pilots are bitter and angry at their company, and which support it. Whichever you prefer to work for, I hope you find yourself working there, they are both great companies[/QUOTE

I already said flex probably makes more year 1-2. I will provide numbers (salary only) for someone that gets hired today up until they hit top of pay scale for 7/7 and 8/6 schedules to have a career comparison. Will you provide the same?

As far as the angry and picketing. It worked. Got a nice raise. If flex gets another raise it will be as a result of NJ picketing and flex trying to compete, just like how we entered negotiations after flex increased their wages.

followingdreams

[QUOTE=Deserthusker;3815615]You are forgetting that Flex got a LARGER raise BEFORE NJ got theirs. Lets face it, if we fast forward to today, probably neither company would have received raises. Lets just enjoy it and realize that Flex and NJ are the majors of this industry and if you find yourself there you are doing OK.

TexasLonghorn

[QUOTE=followingdreams;3815678]Is that larger raise you're talking about the one where senior pilots made an extra 1.7% on their daily rate/salary? YOS 1-3 got pumped significantly, sure, but what about after that? We were told to be grateful to get that percentage raise because management didn't have to do anything and we were being insulting to management to complain about the lack of investment in senior pilots. And then we were told not to worry and that "phase two" would fix the disparity and that those who stayed would be well rewarded. I enjoyed my time at Flexjet but I don't regret leaving at all, mainly because I don't see a realistic path to sustained investment in senior pilots. I do see that at Netjets, mainly because of the union and their collective bargaining ability that is wholly lacking at Flex.

Deserthusker

[QUOTE=followingdreams;3815678]Once again. I said flex got a raise and that’s why we entered negotiations. Was it larger? For years 1-2 yes. Why won’t you provide numbers for end of payscale? Is it because only years 1-3 saw a significant raise? With a union we saw the same percentage increase for all pay scales. Can you say the same? I concede that if you are looking to get PIC and move on quickly flex is probably better. As far as career I still believe that flex is not in the same ballpark. I can post numbers, will you?

followingdreams

[QUOTE=Deserthusker;3815701]
Funny, you havent posted a single number yet, however I have. Feel free to post away and I will respond. There are so many variables when you look past 3-5 years in this industry that coming up with anything long term is next to impossible, on top of that, fleet has so much to do with your compensation that the figures get less accurate as you go farther. When I am in an FBO and hear your pilots calling the "Catering committee" (or whatever you call it) to yell at them and say "We need to be able to specify what dressing we get for our Chicken Caesar Salad" (Yes, it happened, can even tell you the pilots name) while I am headed out to a steak dinner on the company (how will you figure that into your comparison). I am content, Thank you!

Deserthusker

[QUOTE=followingdreams;3815709]These are salary only for small cabin. Once you hit 14 years (end of scale) you receive a longevity bonus yearly For FO 2024 it is $7k for 2029 it is $9k For Capt it is 2024 $11k for 2029 $13k not fleet specific. Hard numbers.

8/6 Fo 2024 year 1. $105k 3. $115K 5. $127k 10. $163k 14. $187K. 2029 year 1. $130k 3. $143k 5. $158k 10. $202k 14. $232k

8/6 Capt 2024 year 1. $176k 3. $188k 5. $202k 10. $240k 14. $275k 2029 year 1. $218k 3. $234k 5. $250 10. $297k 14. $341k

As far as the catering we have new options, crew food only, more perdiem, or crew food and receipts. You get to choose which one. I use the crew food and receipts options. Order two meals and get $60-80 depending on domestic or international to buy a meal. Most places that buys me a steak. As far as the paid parking if you want to pay for parking NJ doesnt reimburse. If you want to park at the FBO and ride the shuttle or take an uber to the terminal the company pays for that.

Still didnt receive an answer to my medical insurance question. You said it was $30 a check or so. Is that for a family or you only? No variable with NJ, zero out of pocket day one for single or family unless you want to go with a different plan.

Try not to be emotional and post real info not angry pilots complaining about food.

IMaFracGOD

[QUOTE=followingdreams;3815709]Yeah so I've heard a very similar in context call from one of Flex's crew into our catering department
These pilots are everywhere, to say that is the type of pilot all NJ pilot's are and that is how we are not at Flex is just wrong

followingdreams

[QUOTE=IMaFracGOD;3815720]I have never heard any complaints calling Flex, if they dont like the food, they just Door Dash to the FBO on the company credit card and donate the food to the line guys. Most guys have standing orders.

TexasLonghorn

[QUOTE=followingdreams;3815726]I've definitely flown with people who would call and complain about the food, especially in the Praetor. I had a standing order and towards the end would get it maybe 60-70% of the time but it was less of an issue in ILC because our cabin servers would order food for the crew for the next day anyways. When I created the standing order in the Phenom I got it maybe 20-30% of the time, the rest would be Aire Culinare Chef Specials, but when I went to ILC I started getting it more often to the point that it became an issue because the company would send my standing order instead of what was requested by the CS. I asked for it to be pulled more than once with no success. It didn't bother me too much because my standing order was simple and something I enjoyed but there were times when I'd ask for something specific and not get it, which was always a little annoying.

You're relying on anecdotal evidence and you've got to remember your experience is indicative of *your* experience and not representative of the company as a whole. You can't possibly represent or speak for others' experiences within a company with 1350+ pilots.