Quick TPIC
#11
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No, I'm correct on this issue and you're the one who is mistaken. If you're not officially signed off as a captain in 121 or 135 operations, you are NOT authorized to be PIC. It has nothing to do with who's manipulating the controls. That's not even what PIC is about. Why is that so hard to understand?
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#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
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Many have had the wind knock out of their sails at airline interviews for doing that. Why? Because many pilots spreading misinformation and bullsh** about something that should be fairly easy and straight forward to understand, yet many try to find loopholes to get around.
So instead of a stupid, meaningless comment about legal opinions and Google searches, explain to me where I'm wrong on this issue. That way, I can go tell our training department to contact our FAA POI to let him know that they're all wrong about doing .299 checkrides to sign pilots off as captains, which from that point on makes them QUALIFIED to act as PIC.
Until then, I'm pretty sure the first officer is NOT legal to log PIC time when performing duty as pilot flying.
#13
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#14
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My opinion is worth exactly what you paid, but.......
Through three 121 airlines and two 135's in 20 years I can tell you EVERY application I have filled out said and I quote "PIC is defined as the person directly responsible for and signing for the aircraft, not sole manipulator of the controls."
Seems pretty straight forward if you ask me.
Through three 121 airlines and two 135's in 20 years I can tell you EVERY application I have filled out said and I quote "PIC is defined as the person directly responsible for and signing for the aircraft, not sole manipulator of the controls."
Seems pretty straight forward if you ask me.
#15
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Not to beat the dead horse, but if you hold the appropriate certificates and ratings and are the sole manipulator of the controls, you can log PIC. The only time that would be useful is if you need the PIC time to add an additional rating or for insurance or company minimums or something along those lines. AFAIK, all airlines and probably most 135s consider PIC time to be the named PIC who signs for the a/c.
I'm not sure what OPs goals are, but for turbine PIC time, it would be hard to beat a Quest Diagnostics or Martinaire or Ameriflight. With 7K hours I would think you could find your way into a Beech 99 or 1900 pretty easily. Quest is flying PC-12s and Phenoms I believe.
#16
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2023
Posts: 7
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You care to post any references to these articles? Google searches and legal "opinions" aren't good explanations of why someone logged PIC time when they weren't LEGAL to act as PIC.
Many have had the wind knock out of their sails at airline interviews for doing that. Why? Because many pilots spreading misinformation and bullsh** about something that should be fairly easy and straight forward to understand, yet many try to find loopholes to get around.
So instead of a stupid, meaningless comment about legal opinions and Google searches, explain to me where I'm wrong on this issue. That way, I can go tell our training department to contact our FAA POI to let him know that they're all wrong about doing .299 checkrides to sign pilots off as captains, which from that point on makes them QUALIFIED to act as PIC.
Until then, I'm pretty sure the first officer is NOT legal to log PIC time when performing duty as pilot flying.
Many have had the wind knock out of their sails at airline interviews for doing that. Why? Because many pilots spreading misinformation and bullsh** about something that should be fairly easy and straight forward to understand, yet many try to find loopholes to get around.
So instead of a stupid, meaningless comment about legal opinions and Google searches, explain to me where I'm wrong on this issue. That way, I can go tell our training department to contact our FAA POI to let him know that they're all wrong about doing .299 checkrides to sign pilots off as captains, which from that point on makes them QUALIFIED to act as PIC.
Until then, I'm pretty sure the first officer is NOT legal to log PIC time when performing duty as pilot flying.
The last paragraph states it directly: "We note that, if the SIC holds category, class, and type ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown, the pilot may log PIC time under § 61.5l(e)(l)(i) as the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which he or she is rated."
If there were any remaining doubt that this is the FAA's up-to-date position on the issue, the same thing can be found in the FAA 8900.1 (which provides guidance for ASIs) sec 5-324(a)(3) (about removing the SOE limitation from a type rating). This document now lives in the DRS, so it's not very easy to link to, but you can find it on page 18 of https://drs.faa.gov/browse/excelExte...410202144.0001 until that link breaks. It just restates what's in Duncan (2012).
Everyone agrees that, when it comes to airline applications, they only care about time when you're actually serving as PIC.
Nevertheless legally, as far as the FAA are concerned, the SIC can log PIC time when acting as the pilot flying (so long as their certificate doesn't have the "SIC Privileges Only" limitation). According to the Duncan interpretation, this has been true since at least 1956. Maybe there's no point. Maybe it's best put in a separate column. Whatever. But the people who said it were correct.
#18
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Joined APC: Sep 2017
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