IMaFracGOD

This ☝️
Spot on

SonicFlyer

Golden handcuffs

Better to have lots of pilots at the lower end of the payscale than lots at the higher end?

Pilatus801

This is interesting news. I wonder what will happen for new hires in the pipeline. I am supposed to start in January, perhaps granfathered into the new pay scale?

SandMan2

I'm really eager to see what happens as well. I have an interview next week. I have 1500 hours. Will I not get a CJO? Will I be under the old pay scale?

TCASfail

You’ll be fine. You won’t be on an old pay scale (at least I don’t think you would). Just don’t red screen the sim. Be yourself. It’s all TMAAT. Don’t mention your time unless asked. What can you bring to flexjet? Can you serve the owners well? A HNWI owner says he doesn’t want a safety briefing. WYD?

Yes unless you want to email HR and disqualify yourself, go right ahead. Anyone applying short of 3,000 is being turned down as of that call.

Let’s further examine this can of worms KR decided to crack.

He mentioned during the call that only year 1-3 is getting a 25-50k pay raise; incidentally with no mention of where Phenom PICs play into this.
It appears Year 5 and beyond assumes ILC. KR said he is going to “focus on evaluation and completion of air carrier parity” in 2024. This is very vague.

If anyone from the panopticon is reading this, here’s what “air carrier parity” looks like:

Pilots beyond year 3 (and potentially all ILC) would still be earning dollars from a 2022 pay raise, which was 2021 Project Vision dollars. Set at around 2.5% pay raise each year.

2022 yearly inflation was 6.5%.
ILC Year 1 is still $180 and not changing.
2023 ILC Year 1 adjusted CPI should be $190+. Same thing with DRL.
DRL Year 5 is still $164.
2023 DRL Year 5 adjusted to CPI should be 174+ inflation would be $174+.

KR mentioned Delta… I’ll give him credit. I thank him for not saying the N word (NetJets) while trying to compare our pay.
Well Delta got 18% DOS, another 5% after one year, 4% after two years and 4% after three.

If he wants to compare us with them, I’m glad. But the math is laid out.
Has he under promised so he can over deliver?
Or will he not deliver at all?
Time will tell.

Let’s talk about the QOL “improvements”.
No duty before 7am Day 1? Sounds great. Will they actually stick to it? ….
Improve home arrival time on last day? …
Flexbid is still a god awful mess. They are assigning months with 9 days, some with 20….
And possible hotel swap to Marriott? …
Yes all these sound great but again, time will tell.

We have more questions now that he dropped all this on us before Christmas. I hope everyone here - pilots and FAs - gets a bite of the cake.

followingdreams

I think the key is that there was a lot promised, as far as anyone can tell it is not being implemented TODAY. If you are sub-3000 hours, continue to apply until you see it printed somewhere the mins are 3,000. Pay raise? Trust me, there will be a TON of emails regarding the increase, until then, nothing is happening. It will be interesting to see how quickly some of the QOL improvements that were discussed are implemented. It is pretty simple to send an email to the hotel department and say "Start booking Marriotts when able" or scheduling "1st day of rotation should not start before 7am", simple email to see some of the changes that were discussed. When I start to see later start times, being booked at the Marriott properties, less crowded go home days, then I will believe the rest of this is "in the works". Until then they are just potential ideas. The bad part is if some of the deliverables are not delivered within a reasonable amount of time, you risk an attrition problem of unbelieveable proportions.

TexasLonghorn

Flexjet was my 1A destination for years, and I've ALWAYS said that I'll stay unless Flexjet gives me a reason to leave. If their idea of parity with air carriers pay scales is this 'throw money at years 1-3 and ignore the rest' idea they're potentially trotting out, then that's a pretty good reason. I'm all for new hires getting compensated in a manner that allows us to be competitive in our hiring processes, especially considering we're raising our minimums while everyone else is lowering theirs. What I'm not going to stay here for is a continued lack of investment in pilots who have been here longer than that timeframe, CGF moneyball analytics or not. I hope that when the new scales are finally released I'll be able to breathe a sigh of relief and tell myself that I was over-reacting. It would've been more prudent to wait to make any sort of announcement until all the details were finalized to begin with, but that's not where we are today. I guess we'll wait and see what the future holds.

sincity

Yeah I think this is where he shot himself in the foot. You can't tell pilots all this great stuff and not give details. We are all very detail oriented. I believe he should have just waited until the emails were ready and the process was ready to proceed. I've heard that the raises aren't until quarter 2 of 2024. Sad thing is some of the QOL improvements were "reduced" times. Not the elimination of early starts and the like.

Upgrades seem to be slowing a bit as well. People awarded bids before Thanksgiving aren't getting training dates till March. That seems a bit ridiculous to me. But like they say, "If it's not your business, then it's none of your business." I'll just hold on and see how this ride goes.

IMaFracGOD

You guys haven't been here long enough to know that this is there M.O.

fa22raptor

While I’m glad that Delta has entered the conversation as the benchmark for pilot pay… The CGF moneyball analytics team has made some very favorable assumptions about career progression at Flexjet and some incredibly lowball assumptions about Delta pay in order to advance their narrative. The Delta Pilot union contract has lots of soft pay items that discourage the sort of scheduling behavior which is normal at Flexjet. That said, those sorts of scheduling things still happen and as a result, I know multiple year two SICs at Delta who are already banking over $250k this year with two paychecks and a performance bonus left to go. All this while working less than the flexjet 8/6 schedule (or pbs equivalent). These figures do not include a 14% direct fully vested 401k contribution. With pay that good for second year hires, I’m not even sure golden handcuffs are a thing anymore.

Understanding that airlines aren’t for everyone and that Flex may have some more tricks up their sleeve before they reveal the final numbers, it’s still early to fully judge what the effects might be. That said, I think the changes are too little, too vague, and (at Q2 of 2024) too late to stop the attrition. Furthermore, no changes to 3yr+ pilot tables in the face of some serious inflation and market changes shows me that maybe this isn’t a career destination that cares about lifetime compensation for what can be a pretty exhausting job vs 121 flying. Their own chart shows as much with a 15yr extrapolated difference (yrs 10 through 25) of $720k-$1.2M.