PBS question
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Position: Pilot
Posts: 37
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
No idea what L$ means, but I am really bummed out to hear that the much hyped "new and improved" Flexbid, isn't living up to the description I was given. Is this a third party app., or is it entirely proprietary? Are you folks that are giving it a thumbs down pretty junior? Do you feel like the new system is not honoring seniority as well as the old system? The only PBS systems I've used, were driven purely by seniority. As it was explained to me, a lack of seniority, or a bad case of juniority, means you have to be realistic about what you wish for, and what you get. Is the company soliciting feedback and promising improvements based on feedback? Anyone heard any Flexjet projections on hiring and expansion in 2024? I imagine if they continue to lose pilots to the legacy carriers, they will have to address widespread unhappiness with Flexbid's performance.
![](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/clear.gif)
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2021
Posts: 30
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
A simple solution to help pilots that aren’t happy with Flexbid would be to offer a 7/7 at the normal day rate. However they refuse and continue to see high attrition with those under 3 years on property.
The major problem with their bidding system is that it is not seniority based, it’s what they call “seniority biased” which means that it takes your preferences into account based on seniority but ultimately does whatever is best for overall coverage. As it was explained to me, the system “scores less points” if it doesn’t give a more senior person what they want. What does it mean to “score less points” not much I guess haha.
Your best bet is to build some time at Flex and then bounce once the majors (or even LCC’s) call. At an airline with an actual PBS you’ll start off with no options but at least get more and more control over your schedule as time goes on.
Side note: the old “PBS” was not a pbs system and it was misleading to call it that in the first place.
The major problem with their bidding system is that it is not seniority based, it’s what they call “seniority biased” which means that it takes your preferences into account based on seniority but ultimately does whatever is best for overall coverage. As it was explained to me, the system “scores less points” if it doesn’t give a more senior person what they want. What does it mean to “score less points” not much I guess haha.
Your best bet is to build some time at Flex and then bounce once the majors (or even LCC’s) call. At an airline with an actual PBS you’ll start off with no options but at least get more and more control over your schedule as time goes on.
Side note: the old “PBS” was not a pbs system and it was misleading to call it that in the first place.
#23
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
No idea what L$ means, but I am really bummed out to hear that the much hyped "new and improved" Flexbid, isn't living up to the description I was given. Is this a third party app., or is it entirely proprietary? Are you folks that are giving it a thumbs down pretty junior? Do you feel like the new system is not honoring seniority as well as the old system? The only PBS systems I've used, were driven purely by seniority. As it was explained to me, a lack of seniority, or a bad case of juniority, means you have to be realistic about what you wish for, and what you get. Is the company soliciting feedback and promising improvements based on feedback? Anyone heard any Flexjet projections on hiring and expansion in 2024? I imagine if they continue to lose pilots to the legacy carriers, they will have to address widespread unhappiness with Flexbid's performance.
Forums can be toxic - so I'll reiterate - there's very good people here, good intentions-ish, good perks in some respects, and to me its been a very low-drama place to be, with approachable people in HQ. If non-121 is you thing, then full-send. But there are some shortcomings in the FlexBid system, length of rotations, and career compensation. I'll try to leave, but by no means bitter or ill-will'd about it. The decision is purely related to length of rotations and career earnings. Neither one of those will change significantly in this decade; At the end of the day Kenn has essentially said that he doesn't pay as much as the airlines do, but will work harder to avoid furloughs in downturns (not to be a kool aid drinker but I truly believe he'll try to follow through on that in good faith). That's not enough to make me stay, but it doesn't make it an awful place to work, so I don't want to send the wrong message.
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 308
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Forums can be toxic - so I'll reiterate - there's very good people here, good intentions-ish, good perks in some respects, and to me its been a very low-drama place to be, with approachable people in HQ. If non-121 is you thing, then full-send. But there are some shortcomings in the FlexBid system, length of rotations, and career compensation. I'll try to leave, but by no means bitter or ill-will'd about it. The decision is purely related to length of rotations and career earnings. Neither one of those will change significantly in this decade; At the end of the day Kenn has essentially said that he doesn't pay as much as the airlines do, but will work harder to avoid furloughs in downturns (not to be a kool aid drinker but I truly believe he'll try to follow through on that in good faith). That's not enough to make me stay, but it doesn't make it an awful place to work, so I don't want to send the wrong message.
I think too many younger people look at the “recruiting poster” version of life at the big airline and think they will live that life after a few years. I retired at about 35-40% on the seniority list (NB CA in a junior base) and my QOL wasn’t anything to brag about. At Flex, you’ll get a few years under your belt and never pay for a vacation. You’ll never sweat a commute (while living where YOU choose). At the airlines, about every 8-10 years, your career takes a hit because of some cataclysmic event that you can’t see coming. Flexjet tries mightily to avoid that from what I’ve seen. I was endlessly frustrated by the gross (sometimes, seemingly intentional) inefficiency I saw every day. If you are a problem solver, the airlines will crush your soul.
![Wink](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Staying out of the airlines will cost you a bunch of money. But, I guarantee your QOL at the airline will fall short of what you anticipate going in. It’s whatever you want out of life.
#26
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I guess they had a meeting a couple weeks ago with senior management on how to retain people and stop the flow to the airlines. You obviously can’t compete directly when it comes to compensation so, they will have to appeal to the QOL aspect. I’m not on line yet but I’m guessing I would have been happier in this environment WRT QOL than I was at AA.
I think too many younger people look at the “recruiting poster” version of life at the big airline and think they will live that life after a few years. I retired at about 35-40% on the seniority list (NB CA in a junior base) and my QOL wasn’t anything to brag about. At Flex, you’ll get a few years under your belt and never pay for a vacation. You’ll never sweat a commute (while living where YOU choose). At the airlines, about every 8-10 years, your career takes a hit because of some cataclysmic event that you can’t see coming. Flexjet tries mightily to avoid that from what I’ve seen. I was endlessly frustrated by the gross (sometimes, seemingly intentional) inefficiency I saw every day. If you are a problem solver, the airlines will crush your soul.
Staying out of the airlines will cost you a bunch of money. But, I guarantee your QOL at the airline will fall short of what you anticipate going in. It’s whatever you want out of life.
I think too many younger people look at the “recruiting poster” version of life at the big airline and think they will live that life after a few years. I retired at about 35-40% on the seniority list (NB CA in a junior base) and my QOL wasn’t anything to brag about. At Flex, you’ll get a few years under your belt and never pay for a vacation. You’ll never sweat a commute (while living where YOU choose). At the airlines, about every 8-10 years, your career takes a hit because of some cataclysmic event that you can’t see coming. Flexjet tries mightily to avoid that from what I’ve seen. I was endlessly frustrated by the gross (sometimes, seemingly intentional) inefficiency I saw every day. If you are a problem solver, the airlines will crush your soul.
![Wink](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Staying out of the airlines will cost you a bunch of money. But, I guarantee your QOL at the airline will fall short of what you anticipate going in. It’s whatever you want out of life.
#27
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I guess they had a meeting a couple weeks ago with senior management on how to retain people and stop the flow to the airlines. You obviously can’t compete directly when it comes to compensation so, they will have to appeal to the QOL aspect. I’m not on line yet but I’m guessing I would have been happier in this environment WRT QOL than I was at AA.
I think too many younger people look at the “recruiting poster” version of life at the big airline and think they will live that life after a few years. I retired at about 35-40% on the seniority list (NB CA in a junior base) and my QOL wasn’t anything to brag about. At Flex, you’ll get a few years under your belt and never pay for a vacation. You’ll never sweat a commute (while living where YOU choose). At the airlines, about every 8-10 years, your career takes a hit because of some cataclysmic event that you can’t see coming. Flexjet tries mightily to avoid that from what I’ve seen. I was endlessly frustrated by the gross (sometimes, seemingly intentional) inefficiency I saw every day. If you are a problem solver, the airlines will crush your soul.
Staying out of the airlines will cost you a bunch of money. But, I guarantee your QOL at the airline will fall short of what you anticipate going in. It’s whatever you want out of life.
I think too many younger people look at the “recruiting poster” version of life at the big airline and think they will live that life after a few years. I retired at about 35-40% on the seniority list (NB CA in a junior base) and my QOL wasn’t anything to brag about. At Flex, you’ll get a few years under your belt and never pay for a vacation. You’ll never sweat a commute (while living where YOU choose). At the airlines, about every 8-10 years, your career takes a hit because of some cataclysmic event that you can’t see coming. Flexjet tries mightily to avoid that from what I’ve seen. I was endlessly frustrated by the gross (sometimes, seemingly intentional) inefficiency I saw every day. If you are a problem solver, the airlines will crush your soul.
![Wink](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Staying out of the airlines will cost you a bunch of money. But, I guarantee your QOL at the airline will fall short of what you anticipate going in. It’s whatever you want out of life.
With respect, in my mind - you might be the one looking at a recruiting poster, but for Flexjet.
#28
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
You just have to realistically evaluate what you're gaining vs. what you're giving up. And be honest with yourself... just because you don't like airline flying, commuting, or living in a big hub doesn't mean you should necessarily skew the available data to support the conclusion you may have already made.
Paid commutes are a big deal... if you can live in a nice smaller town, especially a home town with friends and family, that makes up for a lot.
But carefully consider all aspects... just because you dislike airline flying doesn't mean that you won't dislike other types of flying more.
Also consider things like LTD, legacy pilots are often guaranteed 50-60% income to retirement age if they medical out. So your financial future is very secure unless you show up drunk.
#29
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Not crazy at all.
You just have to realistically evaluate what you're gaining vs. what you're giving up. And be honest with yourself... just because you don't like airline flying, commuting, or living in a big hub doesn't mean you should necessarily skew the available data to support the conclusion you may have already made.
Paid commutes are a big deal... if you can live in a nice smaller town, especially a home town with friends and family, that makes up for a lot.
But carefully consider all aspects... just because you dislike airline flying doesn't mean that you won't dislike other types of flying more.
Also consider things like LTD, legacy pilots are often guaranteed 50-60% income to retirement age if they medical out. So your financial future is very secure unless you show up drunk.
You just have to realistically evaluate what you're gaining vs. what you're giving up. And be honest with yourself... just because you don't like airline flying, commuting, or living in a big hub doesn't mean you should necessarily skew the available data to support the conclusion you may have already made.
Paid commutes are a big deal... if you can live in a nice smaller town, especially a home town with friends and family, that makes up for a lot.
But carefully consider all aspects... just because you dislike airline flying doesn't mean that you won't dislike other types of flying more.
Also consider things like LTD, legacy pilots are often guaranteed 50-60% income to retirement age if they medical out. So your financial future is very secure unless you show up drunk.
I am in my early 30s now and healthy. But you never know what could happen later in life or be waiting dormant. That is a very good point I will need to chew on some.
#30
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 20
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I guess they had a meeting a couple weeks ago with senior management on how to retain people and stop the flow to the airlines. You obviously can’t compete directly when it comes to compensation so, they will have to appeal to the QOL aspect. I’m not on line yet but I’m guessing I would have been happier in this environment WRT QOL than I was at AA.
I think too many younger people look at the “recruiting poster” version of life at the big airline and think they will live that life after a few years. I retired at about 35-40% on the seniority list (NB CA in a junior base) and my QOL wasn’t anything to brag about. At Flex, you’ll get a few years under your belt and never pay for a vacation. You’ll never sweat a commute (while living where YOU choose). At the airlines, about every 8-10 years, your career takes a hit because of some cataclysmic event that you can’t see coming. Flexjet tries mightily to avoid that from what I’ve seen. I was endlessly frustrated by the gross (sometimes, seemingly intentional) inefficiency I saw every day. If you are a problem solver, the airlines will crush your soul.![Wink](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Staying out of the airlines will cost you a bunch of money. But, I guarantee your QOL at the airline will fall short of what you anticipate going in. It’s whatever you want out of life.
I think too many younger people look at the “recruiting poster” version of life at the big airline and think they will live that life after a few years. I retired at about 35-40% on the seniority list (NB CA in a junior base) and my QOL wasn’t anything to brag about. At Flex, you’ll get a few years under your belt and never pay for a vacation. You’ll never sweat a commute (while living where YOU choose). At the airlines, about every 8-10 years, your career takes a hit because of some cataclysmic event that you can’t see coming. Flexjet tries mightily to avoid that from what I’ve seen. I was endlessly frustrated by the gross (sometimes, seemingly intentional) inefficiency I saw every day. If you are a problem solver, the airlines will crush your soul.
![Wink](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Staying out of the airlines will cost you a bunch of money. But, I guarantee your QOL at the airline will fall short of what you anticipate going in. It’s whatever you want out of life.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post