Noworkallplay

[QUOTE=TonyC;3281665]Point us to the ALPA negotiated contract that instituted the provision.

HINT:. The provision existed when we operated under the Flight Crew Handbook which preceded the first contract which was negotiated by the FPA.



Do you get Flight Pay Loss for your ALPA cheerleading?



I did some volunteering in a previous life at another major (Committee work). No way I would volunteer for this apathetic subcontractor group. Bunch of me men who don't have the first clue how a CBA works or is defended.

You and I both know that provision in the CBA has been grabbed for by the company on numerous occasions. Many grievances have been based on that section and fought for and defended. That all took volunteers as you know TonyC.

TonyC

This is what happens when someone tries to cover a lie with more lies.

Perhaps this false persona you're portraying did some volunteering at another major. Perhaps this same persona worked alongside Mother Teresa as she provided care for dying children. Nothing you may have done, or imagined you have done, though, justifies the drivel you're fabricating here.

You and I both know you're just making stuff up here, and for no good reason. Or, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there's a provision in an ALPA negotiated CBA that allows pilots to collect frequent flyer points on airlines based on tickets purchased by FedEx for business deadhead travel. Or, maybe there's such a provision that carried over from an FPA negotiated CBA. Either way, that provision would be located in a Section of the CBA, and it would be located in a paragraph within such a section. Can you tell us which Section that would be, and which paragraph within that section.

As for the numerous occasions when the company supposedly grabbed for this "provision in the CBA" and the "[m]any grievances [that] have been based on that section and fought for and defended," every grievance has a number, beginning with the last two digits of the calendar year, a dash, and the numerical sequence of grievances that calendar year. The fifteenth grievance of 2018, for example, would be grievance number 18-15. So, of the "[m]any grievances," please give us the grievance numbers of just a few. Or just one. Then we can reference them on the FDX ALPA website (well, I can because I'm actually a pilot, and actually an ALPA member in good standing) and read all about them.

And when you share the CBA Section and Paragraph and the Grievance numbers, I will admit I was wrong.

Or, if you can't because they don't exist, you can go away and spread your manure elsewhere.






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pinseeker

Says the troll that trashed the Hong Kong pilots, meanwhile the troll was flying extra/draft as a "me first" pilot looking out only for themselves. Classic do as I say, not as I do!


Now, back on topic. Info for new hires, ignore this troll.

Pilots

If you get awarded an airframe as a new hire not in a foreign domicile, are you seat locked and not able to bid into a foreign domicile until the seat lock is up?

Auto29

If someone puts an availability date of, say January 1, would an interview happen before that date in prep of getting a class close to availability or not until after that date?

pinseeker

You can bid an FDA. Who knows what is going to happen with HKG.

pinseeker

Just put down when you are available and keep updating your application. There is no telling when/if you will get called. If you are just now submitting you application, I would not count on an early January class date.

Auto29

Thanks, I was asking for future life planning, about a year from now.

Noworkallplay

ALPA cheerleader? AHAHA No I am a union cheerleader because I understand what the company would do if we didn’t have one. I don’t care about the name of the union I’m just thankful we have one.

Look no further than the ALPA web page for examples of the company making grabs at the deviation and deadhead language. Below are examples dating back to 2008 of grievances.

I was also able to contact a family member, who flew under the policy manual, and then under the FPA and ALPA 1 agreements. In his own words “The policy manual (not a contract) had very limited deviation language and deadhead language and was constantly changed not in the pilots favor. The company did what they wanted when they wanted to move you around. The 2009 agreement changed this and memorialized the details and gave the pilots a grievance process” I don’t have access to that document so I will have to take his words on it. We do have access to the contracts dating back to the 2009 FPA agreement on the union web page.

I did a DART and according to the response In both the 06 and 15 negotiations the company proposed changes to alleviate or reduce deadhead travel according to a member of the negotiations committee. So yes the company most definitely has tried to reduce or alleviate these provisions both in negotiations and in violations of the CBA as you can see by the examples below.

Year/Grievance Number

2008/08-15

2012/12-02

2013/13-03

2013/13-05

2015/15-14

2016/16-01

2017/17-09

2018/18-05

2019/19-10

2019/19-13

2020/20-07

2020/20-15

TonyC

<heavy sigh>

Every time you post, I want to begin my reply with, "You're an idiot." Then I remember that it's APC, and there's a Terms of Service that we have to comply with, and I don't want to have my post edited or removed, and I don't want to earn penalty points for insulting an idiot. So, I respond civilly. I must thank my seven children for teaching me the patience it takes to deal with you.

I, too, appreciate the value of a union, and a contract, and federal law to offer some degree of protection. I do NOT however have to like every person who works for the union and every action they take. Your allegiance is not just to ALPA, but the particular people who are running the offices on Kirby. It's almost like you work in an office down the hall from them.



Nice try, but no. The topic is NOT "deviation and deadhead language." Remember?You responded:The reason you can't cite the Section and Paragraph of the CBA which covers airline and hotel loyalty programs is because it does not exist.



It wasn't a policy manual, it was the Flight Crew Handbook. Meet me at the location of your choice in Memphis and I'll share my copy with you.


"ALPA 1" negotiated a TA which was rejected by the membership, so nobody "flew under it."

We're not talking about deviation language and deadhead language, we're talking about airline and hotel loyalty programs, and how to optimize the use thereof. You claimed the ALPA volunteers earned those perks. I asked you to point us to the contract provision, and you did not. You claimed ALPA defended against attacks on the perks and won grievances. I asked you to point to such a grievance. All you've listed here are grievances about deviation banks, accepted fares, and lie flat seats. Oops.


I still want to say, "You're an idiot."

There was no 2009 agreement.

Every Collective Bargaining
is on the Negotiating Committee page, including the 1999 FPA contract.

None of them say a whisper about airline or hotel loyalty programs.


You mean you walked down the hall and asked someone on Grievance or Contract Enforcement? I really hope you didn't waste someone's time by using the DART system -- it's intended for pilots who have problems and need help, or want to report something that needs the attention of those ALPA volunteers. Trying to save face on APC Forums is not what the DART program is intended for.

I'll stop quoting from this point on in order to make this easier to read, but I'm starting with the list of grievances you provided, and I'm adding the title of the grievance and disposition in red.

Year/Grievance Number

2008/08-15 - Accepted Fares (Settled 10/14/13)

2012/12-02 - Denial of Deviation Bank for Removed Trip (No dates noted)

2013/13-03 - Not Leaving on a Jet Plane (No decision, no appeal, no arbitration, no settlement)

2013/13-05 - Denial of Deviation Bank After Workman's Compensable Injury (Settled 6/21/13)

2015/15-14 - Denial of Revised Accepted Fare (withdrawn by grievant 8/10/16)

2016/16-01 - Flat Bed Seat Topples Deviation Rights and Bank Credit (grievance denied 12/27/17)

2017/17-09 - Deadhead Greater Than 16 Hours (granted 3/6/18)

2018/18-05 - Purchase of Higher Class of Service Tickets (settled, date not listed)

2019/19-10 - Low Baseline and Established Fares (settlement discussions)

2019/19-13 - FDA Repositioning Ticket for Spouse (settled, date not listed)

2020/20-07 - Business necessity DH (hearing remains open)

2020/20-15 - Deviation Bank Credit (decided (against, obviously) 5/28/21, Appeal deadline 9/30/21)


Thank you for the list of grievances that have nothing to do with airline or hotel loyalty programs. It seems like if you wanted to pick a topic for such a list, you'd pick one where we've had more success. By the way, what did that "member of the negotiations committee" who you referenced above have to say about 16-01? They got cute with the name for that grievance, but the outcome wasn't so cute, was it? In fact, it turned out just like the pilots in the audience at the 2015 TA roadshows said it would. Contrary to the assurances given members by the Negotiating Committee Chairman, the TA language (which became the CBA language) contradicted his description of the benefit. The "stupid pilots in the audience" were right all along. Apparently, we can read!


<heavy sigh>






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