ALPA......How come we aren't?
08-14-2016, 08:26 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,624
I know many senior folks who would love to exercise their seniority and fly back and forth to home every day/night on the 757, but they can't afford the pay cut.
Your bit about "choosing seniority over money" makes no sense to me.
Oh but I know, "what would we have to give up to have single pay rates?"
How about getting rid of all the passover pay/training slot denial crap language which is a hassle for us and company and score higher payrates for everyone? Once you have everyone trained, there's going to be very little moving around/training between NB FO, WB FO, WB CA, and WB CA.
Since when has a union ever said that you could have a "good deal" but you're going to have to pay for it?
I know my opinion isn't shared by many here, but that's how I see it and that's why our 757 pilots will never make what UPS pilots make.
08-14-2016, 08:43 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
But we also have pilots flying 700Klbs class airplanes making the same as pilots flying 300Klbs. Either you believe in a single pay rate (UPS) or you believe in pay bands (ALPA mantra) paying more for higher gross weight/higher revenue generating aircraft. At FedEx, we have neither.
I know many senior folks who would love to exercise their seniority and fly back and forth to home every day/night on the 757, but they can't afford the pay cut.
Your bit about "choosing seniority over money" makes no sense to me.
Oh but I know, "what would we have to give up to have single pay rates?"
How about getting rid of all the passover pay/training slot denial crap language which is a hassle for us and company and score higher payrates for everyone? Once you have everyone trained, there's going to be very little moving around/training between NB FO, WB FO, WB CA, and WB CA.
Since when has a union ever said that you could have a "good deal" but you're going to have to pay for it?
I know my opinion isn't shared by many here, but that's how I see it and that's why our 757 pilots will never make what UPS pilots make.
I know many senior folks who would love to exercise their seniority and fly back and forth to home every day/night on the 757, but they can't afford the pay cut.
Your bit about "choosing seniority over money" makes no sense to me.
Oh but I know, "what would we have to give up to have single pay rates?"
How about getting rid of all the passover pay/training slot denial crap language which is a hassle for us and company and score higher payrates for everyone? Once you have everyone trained, there's going to be very little moving around/training between NB FO, WB FO, WB CA, and WB CA.
Since when has a union ever said that you could have a "good deal" but you're going to have to pay for it?
I know my opinion isn't shared by many here, but that's how I see it and that's why our 757 pilots will never make what UPS pilots make.
I am sorry you don't understand choosing seniority over money, let me explain it to you. I choose seniority over money. Therefore someone junior to me can hold WB Captain. And someone Junior to him can hold NB Captain. Again we have 5 year guys holding seats guys with 15 years at UPS (or anywhere else you would want to work) cant hold. UPS has some impressive pay rates, but if you are stuck at the bottom of the list for 15 of your 25 years it doesn't do you a lot of good. Ill take our contract and its quality of life any day.
And yes I agree that our 75 payrates will never equal UPS. Because most of our membership would never vote for what it would take for it to happen.
08-14-2016, 09:03 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,624
I agree with you that we have a hybrid system. Personally I have a preference for the ALPA standard model where we would have 11 pay rates instead of our 2.5. My second choice would be the UPS model. It is not my doing that we have the FDX version of pay rates. Both systems have advantages and disadvantages.
I am sorry you don't understand choosing seniority over money, let me explain it to you. I choose seniority over money. Therefore someone junior to me can hold WB Captain. And someone Junior to him can hold NB Captain. Again we have 5 year guys holding seats guys with 15 years at UPS (or anywhere else you would want to work) cant hold. UPS has some impressive pay rates, but if you are stuck at the bottom of the list for 15 of your 25 years it doesn't do you a lot of good. Ill take our contract and its quality of life any day.
And yes I agree that our 75 payrates will never equal UPS. Because most of our membership would never vote for what it would take for it to happen.
I am sorry you don't understand choosing seniority over money, let me explain it to you. I choose seniority over money. Therefore someone junior to me can hold WB Captain. And someone Junior to him can hold NB Captain. Again we have 5 year guys holding seats guys with 15 years at UPS (or anywhere else you would want to work) cant hold. UPS has some impressive pay rates, but if you are stuck at the bottom of the list for 15 of your 25 years it doesn't do you a lot of good. Ill take our contract and its quality of life any day.
And yes I agree that our 75 payrates will never equal UPS. Because most of our membership would never vote for what it would take for it to happen.
Isn't the entire point of seniority is to have better pay, better vacation, better quality of life?
And you hit a home run with the "because most of our membership would never vote for what it would take for it to happen." Because we don't have a leader to show them that we could score more for the company, hence more for us by ending huge training letters and people bouncing up four steps versus two.
08-14-2016, 09:13 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
You just made every point I was trying to communicate. In other words, you are ok with senior people having to make less to exercise their seniority. Or junior people abrogating someone's seniority because of a pay issue.
Isn't the entire point of seniority is to have better pay, better vacation, better quality of life?
And you hit a home run with the "because most of our membership would never vote for what it would take for it to happen." Because we don't have a leader to show them that we could score more for the company, hence more for us by ending huge training letters and people bouncing up four steps versus two.
Isn't the entire point of seniority is to have better pay, better vacation, better quality of life?
And you hit a home run with the "because most of our membership would never vote for what it would take for it to happen." Because we don't have a leader to show them that we could score more for the company, hence more for us by ending huge training letters and people bouncing up four steps versus two.
08-14-2016, 03:17 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,989
The choice to pass on an upgrade or fly a smaller airplane domestically is part of just about every pax or freighter pilot's life except UPS, SWA and a few other single fleet outfits. It's not an abrogation of seniority if everyone senior to a particular pilot has the option to take his seat and they opt not to do so.
08-15-2016, 06:36 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,200
Of course I make your point we don't disagree on how the system works. We just disagree on whether it has advantages or not. If the most senior pilots can't afford to take a pay cut to fly the trips they want, it is too bad. I want some quality of life for everyone, not just the guys lobbying to push the retirement age to 70.
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