HIFLYR

There would still be junior and senior people with a single pay rate system, yes? While your at it why not divide the trips out and assign them random so it would good and bad trips for all!

PurpleToolBox

The 757 flies isn't a domestic airplane, it flies plenty of international routes. The company now has 119 757s (initially we weren't supposed to have that many ... originally 90?). Rumors are that the company is looking for another lot of 25 757s all configured the same way from one user before they shut down the conversion line in Mobile. Why are the numbers of 757s significant? This airline is changing. Many Airbus routes are being converted to 757s. They are now using 757s on a widebody route when the historical loads on that route are low enough to be flown on a 757. Instead of flying the widebody all week, the low cargo load days are flown with the 757. Hence, we're losing widebody positions. As a group, we're going backwards in pay.

I go back to my first point. Either you like the UPS model or you like the ALPA model. We have neither. The 757 should pay the same as the other aircraft, or our larger widebodies need larger pay rates than the A310 (pay bands for each aircraft increasing in size).

The real mistake was made when we allowed the 757 to be grouped into 727 pay rates when it was 20% more efficient and had one less crew member.

MaydayMark

IIRC ... ALPA agreed to making the 757 a narrow body for pay purposes IN EXCHANGE for really big A380 pay rates (Our Union Chairman DW & Negotiating Committee Chairman BC were both senior enough to bid the A380?).

How'd that work out for us?


.

Busboy

Actually, the first mistake was when the FDX pilots allowed the DC8-73 to be grouped into their 727 rates. The DC8-73's payload and MTOGW were almost identical to the A300.

But at that time, we weren't ALPA and DW wasn't the head of the FAB(Flight Advisory Board)...Nonetheless, there must be some way we can blame them.

pipe

If you cannot hold what you deem better pay, better vacation, and better quality of life it's not a flaw in the system -- YOU JUST AREN'T SENIOR ENOUGH!!

The number one 777 Captain holds the trips/airplane/vacation that he chooses. In our system, the number 200 777CA could trade that left seat away to be the number one 767FO and have any trip/vacation he wants.

It feels like maybe you have an unrealistic idea of the power of your own seniority. It's also worth mentioning that seniority probably shouldn't mean that a few people at the top get everything while the rest get nothing.

Pipe

kronan

757 always looks small to me when I see it on the FDX ramp, and then surprisingly larger when I look out the window at various planes on the PAX ramps.

The pay gap between WB FO and NB Capt on Reserve is surprisingly minimal, especially when you consider the pay as a days at work thing. Painful to compare the WB FO lines I flew versus the 15 days of Reserve I sat, even though the paycheck was bigger.

Middling Seniority now as a NB Capt, thanks to all of the numerous Senior FO's who've elected to retain their Seat Seniority vice upgrading.
The thing that is most surprising to me is how frequently I fly with a cargo load that would be the ballast payload when I flew the occasional empty WB plane to relocate it.

The last cargo load I flew was about 10k. Pretty confident FedEx would still make $$ if we had opted for a single pay rate in our 99 contract, but the inertia is such that I can't see FedEx opting to make that transition. Benefits of fewer training cycles hard to quantify, and there are people who chase type ratings--do have to say I've enjoyed my training cycles at FedEx, never experienced an Ops Emergency while I was in the schoolhouse, been thankful to witness the ice storm chaos from the comfort of my crashpad

Jetjok

+1 Well said.

whalesurfer

I prefer the single pay scale system we have here at brown. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to fly a heavy jet all over the world being as junior as I am. ..and senior guys/gals "wouldn't be able" to fly short trips while spending many layovers in their own beds. Of course they'd be able to but not without a pay hit had we a pay scale similar to what FDX has.

However, no system or airline is perfect and this is no different. For one you have a much better management team at your company. I'd take one of your managers for all of ours! ..and we have hundreds of them! On a personal level they are nice people however, because of this management system we are at least 4 years behind you in upgrades; you upgrade line pilots while we hire regional pilots from outside straight into the left seat of our jets.

APC claims the most junior captain here was hired in March of 2001. ..for purple it says May of 2005. However we've been told one of your new-hire's has been awarded the left seat?!!
Not sure how true that is however, without a doubt a pilot can upgrade at least 4 years sooner at purple than at brown.
Just jumpseated on one of our birds where a captain who's been flying the same airplane for 22 years and the fo who's been doing the same for 13 years were being given a line-check by a fairly new management captain. It's all about safety. Go figure. ..but I digress.

Based on your current and on our current pay rates (our TA will probably pass but I'm looking at our current rates) a junior pilot would be ahead at FDX.
(assuming the converted 12 months/74 hour guarantee APC uses)

Purple:
4-year 757 captain a minimum of $198,912,
5-year - $199,800,
6-year - $200,688, etc.
These are all based on hourly rates and nothing more. No international overrides, per-diem, etc.

At brown on the other hand:
4-year fo minimum of $147,744,
5-year - $150,660,
6-year - $153,567, etc.

By the way, if this fo takes FIRST AVAILABLE! upgrade he or she will remain in that seat for 16+ years

I used APC's calculator and hope I didn't screw up the numbers. Obviously this is a very partial and also a biased snap shot of current differences between the two airlines.

Most people fly more than guarantee and there are many other ways to make extra money but I wanted to compare bare-bones guarantees and nothing else. So the way I see it for junior pilots FDX wins.
Am I wrong?

skypine27

Whale that "new hire awarded MEM 757 CA" thing you hear is mostly true but it needs to be qualified with his actual training date.

Here, you can be awarded 757 CA on a bid that closes today, and the company doesn't have to send you training for it for up to 3 years.

So while yes it's true that a guy with approx 1 year or less seniority (Not sure if he was technically in new hire ground school when that bid closed) was awarded MEM 757 CA, the training date they gave him (and thus the pay consistent with the new seat) is actually about +3 years out.

Ludicrous Speed

Not FDX, but gotta chime in. Let management worry about the economics of different fleets. If one does the same job at the same company, that should be the same pay + seniority.

That is all. Carry on.