pinseeker

I took the complaint from the OP as the company using the part of the contract that allowed them to substitute BC lie flat seats for flights that would normally require a FC ticket. If the flight was suppose to be FC and the seats didn't recline to at least 175 degrees, then the ticket should have been in FC.

Flaps, could you clarify?

Adlerdriver

No. That's why I said this whole section of the contract is AFU.

It delineates when we are due a "higher class of service". Those time are:
Flights over 5 hours block
DH in single duty period over 11:30
DH block hours plus revenue block hours in single duty period exceed 8
DH > 2:30 with origin and destination outside the 48 contiguous

It then almost immediately states that "flat-bed" satisfies this higher class requirement no matter what the airline calls it (so, we get business as long as it is flat bed, 175 degrees)

Just to keep the waters muddy, there is still all kinds of rules and references to business and first class which remain from the old contract language.

Long flights are pretty black and white. We need a flat-bed seat and most airlines have them now in those markets.

But, what if I'm on a medium length flight (say 4-8 hours) that happens to have a three class cabin. BC has an angled seat (170) and first class lays flat. Which do I get?
The old contract language that remains referencing flights under 10 hours says business or first at the company's discretion (wonder which one they'll pick ).
The new language says "a flat-bed seat satisfies the higher class requirement" - but it doesn't say it's required. It say it in a way and context as a relief clause to alleviate the old requirement for first class in some situations (over 16 hour duty). That's why we are seeing BC seats on DFW-HKG and JFK-DXB, etc. So, they managed to craft that language to use flat-bed seats where it's to their advantage, but not make them a standard in all situations, IMO.

Adlerdriver

That's why I asked him if there was FC on that flight or if the seat he got was the best one available. The language lets the company flex to a BC seat as long as it is flat-bed. But, it doesn't make it a requirement for them to find a flight WITH a flat-bed seat. If those angled seats Flaps got on that flight were the best available, the company was totally in compliance with the contract since he was on JAL (which doesn't discount) and he was in something other than coach.

FDXLAG

To me it is black and white that an international trip over 2.5 hours is eligible for a class upgrade. It is the companies choice that the 4 hour flight we are talking about will either be 1st or Business. Flat bed seat is not a player unless you have a coach flat bed, in which case 170 degrees would not cut it. Business class meets the companies obligation, we can ***** but it is legal. What is more it is better than contract 2011.

The Walrus

No it's not.

FDXLAG

Please expand on why an international trip over 2.5 (or a domestic over 5) hours and less than 10 would require a class other than business. A higher class of Service less than 10 hours is Business or First at the company's pleasure.

The Walrus

Not better than 2011.

FDXLAG

So you think International DHs over 2.5 hours with a class upgrade is the same as or worse than International DHs only if over 5 hours.

CompetentFool

I booked a deviation ticket two weeks ago to NRT. The Corp travel dude (Richard - who happens to be by far the best and most competent employee at the place) told me they have a list to reference by airline that states whether lie-flat seats are available for each variant. Ex: AA 777-200s don't have them so higher class of service is authorized. AA 777-300s do have them. AA 777-W is a code AA uses for a flight when they haven't decided which variant will be on that particular flight. This does warrant higher class of service. Of course if they swap tails at the last minute all bets are off. It's basically AFU and the language in the contract allows Corp travel to determine my class of service. Richard hates it too btw.

skypine27

The company uses UAL business class for HKG to SFO and vice Versa.

It's 2 X 4 X 2 seating. It's terrible (pretty much coach with a better meal). The best part is the accepted fare is about 2400 dollars. Yup.

There's Global First on those same UAL flights but hey that whole "lie flat" thing we agreed to...