Neg Comm Update - Signing Bonus Upped
10-11-2015, 12:06 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 711
Never said I don't have an opinion and argue that opinion.
Never have thought a good point isn't a good point regardless of the source, not knowing the source, or the way someone is voting.
I am smart enough to reflect on the validity of a point as I'm sure most here are capable of doing that too. I don't need to know about the bias or agenda of anyone to use information provided to make my own thoughts more informed.
I don't need to know who the author of www.purpleTA.com is to say "I never knew that or I agree with that or I don't agree with that". What I do with all of the above is go read the TA itself. I have posted a lot of questions to the ALPA Q&A website. Some of the answers aren't complete answers. They have done a good job with some stuff, but they stop short of providing complete information time after time. I have read the entire TA and can say this without hesitation. If I don't get complete information, I'm smart enough to see what was left out and it's mostly been the down side. If you omit both sides how can you claim to be accurate?
On www.purpleTA.com you can see the August 17th highlights that listed concessions that was circulated at the union level. Compare that to the version you were given two days later without those concessions! Why is your version different? Why were all the acknowledged concessions scrubbed? Think there is no agenda at the NC and it is all just plain old accurate facts? What do you call the August 19th version we received--accurate or sanitized?
What social media does and why it's a thorn in the sides of TA discussions is that it provides a venue for non party line thoughts and opinions. How can I be criticized or anyone here be criticized for providing information that isn't fully accurate if I'm not provided the untainted data from the NC? For crying out loud, our MEC block 1 rep couldn't get access to the data he needed--reference his initial post.
Why should we on social media be held to an impossible standard? Maybe some of our numbers and thoughts aren't perfect, but I would bet that most people here don't think that Rock (from the pro side) or cloud sailor or myself from the con side are perfect, yet they still read our posts with at least some respect. (Not limiting just to these people listed, just examples.)
What I take issue is this from the NC today:
One of the biggest obstacles in all contract negotiations in recent years is social media. While it provides a venue for contact, camaraderie, humor, and opinion, it also can be used as a platform to deliver inaccurate and unverified data and analysis. Many times, these data points and opinion are also veiled by anonymous screen names without any point of reference for the author. Your MEC Negotiating Support Team has worked tirelessly to provide you access to the most accurate, up-to-date information through communication updates, videos, P2P, Family Awareness, and our website.
When they publish a fleshed out highlights incorporating August 17th concessions and they provide the numbers costed in the TA that reflect the $$ given back, I will consider that social media is no longer needed.
But until the union provides info and let's the chips fall where they may, there will be a big need for those of us on social media to provide insights to TA pitfalls.
Never have thought a good point isn't a good point regardless of the source, not knowing the source, or the way someone is voting.
I am smart enough to reflect on the validity of a point as I'm sure most here are capable of doing that too. I don't need to know about the bias or agenda of anyone to use information provided to make my own thoughts more informed.
I don't need to know who the author of www.purpleTA.com is to say "I never knew that or I agree with that or I don't agree with that". What I do with all of the above is go read the TA itself. I have posted a lot of questions to the ALPA Q&A website. Some of the answers aren't complete answers. They have done a good job with some stuff, but they stop short of providing complete information time after time. I have read the entire TA and can say this without hesitation. If I don't get complete information, I'm smart enough to see what was left out and it's mostly been the down side. If you omit both sides how can you claim to be accurate?
On www.purpleTA.com you can see the August 17th highlights that listed concessions that was circulated at the union level. Compare that to the version you were given two days later without those concessions! Why is your version different? Why were all the acknowledged concessions scrubbed? Think there is no agenda at the NC and it is all just plain old accurate facts? What do you call the August 19th version we received--accurate or sanitized?
What social media does and why it's a thorn in the sides of TA discussions is that it provides a venue for non party line thoughts and opinions. How can I be criticized or anyone here be criticized for providing information that isn't fully accurate if I'm not provided the untainted data from the NC? For crying out loud, our MEC block 1 rep couldn't get access to the data he needed--reference his initial post.
Why should we on social media be held to an impossible standard? Maybe some of our numbers and thoughts aren't perfect, but I would bet that most people here don't think that Rock (from the pro side) or cloud sailor or myself from the con side are perfect, yet they still read our posts with at least some respect. (Not limiting just to these people listed, just examples.)
What I take issue is this from the NC today:
One of the biggest obstacles in all contract negotiations in recent years is social media. While it provides a venue for contact, camaraderie, humor, and opinion, it also can be used as a platform to deliver inaccurate and unverified data and analysis. Many times, these data points and opinion are also veiled by anonymous screen names without any point of reference for the author. Your MEC Negotiating Support Team has worked tirelessly to provide you access to the most accurate, up-to-date information through communication updates, videos, P2P, Family Awareness, and our website.
When they publish a fleshed out highlights incorporating August 17th concessions and they provide the numbers costed in the TA that reflect the $$ given back, I will consider that social media is no longer needed.
But until the union provides info and let's the chips fall where they may, there will be a big need for those of us on social media to provide insights to TA pitfalls.
10-11-2015, 12:19 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,199
Raptor, I'm just refering to your "without an agenda" comment. The author of PurpleTA very clearly has an agenda. And says so. Good for him. But he has a clear agenda nonetheless.
Also, the MEC site has published every message from MEC no voters and has very prominent links to them. They are not hiding dissenting opinion as has been claimed by some.
I agree with you that the best source of information is the TA itself. It's not written in code and most of the language is familiar to all of us. I'm really not swayed by the opinions/appeals of yes or no advocates. And frankly, the influence they do have is often the opposite of what they hope.
I think you have done a great job on this site of prompting discussion. Like instructing or teaching, having to explain something is often the best way of truly learning about the subject.
Also, the MEC site has published every message from MEC no voters and has very prominent links to them. They are not hiding dissenting opinion as has been claimed by some.
I agree with you that the best source of information is the TA itself. It's not written in code and most of the language is familiar to all of us. I'm really not swayed by the opinions/appeals of yes or no advocates. And frankly, the influence they do have is often the opposite of what they hope.
I think you have done a great job on this site of prompting discussion. Like instructing or teaching, having to explain something is often the best way of truly learning about the subject.
10-11-2015, 01:10 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 711
Raptor, I'm just refering to your "without an agenda" comment. The author of PurpleTA very clearly has an agenda. And says so. Good for him. But he has a clear agenda nonetheless.
Also, the MEC site has published every message from MEC no voters and has very prominent links to them. They are not hiding dissenting opinion as has been claimed by some.
I agree with you that the best source of information is the TA itself. It's not written in code and most of the language is familiar to all of us. I'm really not swayed by the opinions/appeals of yes or no advocates. And frankly, the influence they do have is often the opposite of what they hope.
I think you have done a great job on this site of prompting discussion. Like instructing or teaching, having to explain something is often the best way of truly learning about the subject.
Also, the MEC site has published every message from MEC no voters and has very prominent links to them. They are not hiding dissenting opinion as has been claimed by some.
I agree with you that the best source of information is the TA itself. It's not written in code and most of the language is familiar to all of us. I'm really not swayed by the opinions/appeals of yes or no advocates. And frankly, the influence they do have is often the opposite of what they hope.
I think you have done a great job on this site of prompting discussion. Like instructing or teaching, having to explain something is often the best way of truly learning about the subject.
10-11-2015, 01:33 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 154
FYI
Negotiating Committee Chairman's Message
October 11, 2015
One of the biggest obstacles in all contract negotiations in recent years is social media. While it provides a venue for contact, camaraderie, humor, and opinion, it also can be used as a platform to deliver inaccurate and unverified data and analysis. Many times, these data points and opinion are also veiled by anonymous screen names without any point of reference for the author. Your MEC Negotiating Support Team has worked tirelessly to provide you access to the most accurate, up-to-date information through communication updates, videos, P2P, Family Awareness, and our website (FDX Pilots > splash2). On that site you can also find communications and opinion pieces from your elected representatives, both those who endorse this TA as well as those who do not support its ratification. There is new information being posted daily.
Some new information that we just received concerns the retro signing bonus.
Negotiating Committee Chairman's Message
October 11, 2015
One of the biggest obstacles in all contract negotiations in recent years is social media. While it provides a venue for contact, camaraderie, humor, and opinion, it also can be used as a platform to deliver inaccurate and unverified data and analysis. Many times, these data points and opinion are also veiled by anonymous screen names without any point of reference for the author. Your MEC Negotiating Support Team has worked tirelessly to provide you access to the most accurate, up-to-date information through communication updates, videos, P2P, Family Awareness, and our website (FDX Pilots > splash2). On that site you can also find communications and opinion pieces from your elected representatives, both those who endorse this TA as well as those who do not support its ratification. There is new information being posted daily.
Some new information that we just received concerns the retro signing bonus.
Well now......2 observations:
Sounds like the free exchange of ideas is getting in the way of shoving this POS down the pilot's collective throats.
Someone looked at the vote data and it must not look too good. Figure out a way to sweeten the pot - QUICK. This TA is going down - and adding a couple 1000 to the pot is not enough lipstick to make this pig look good.
10-11-2015, 01:50 PM
#17
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Tool-Box, old man
Posts: 2,205
fbh
10-11-2015, 02:35 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,199
Rock, we never knew the author of the old wilsonsays.com website either. It doesn't necessarily make it not true.
fbh
fbh
10-11-2015, 02:43 PM
#19
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
As far as I am concerned, they can keep the bonus. Instead, fix the language, retirement, payrates, givebacks, and I would be happy.
And according to the logic of the letter, if Paul Revere would have had his own APC he would have been chastised.
And according to the logic of the letter, if Paul Revere would have had his own APC he would have been chastised.
10-11-2015, 04:55 PM
#20
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 19
ALPA uses a third party online voting company specifically because receiving any information on the running tally (yea or nay) of an RLA union vote in progress is a violation of federal law punishable by significant jail time. So is polling voters to even get an indication of how the voting is going. Patches, do have evidence of a violation of this law? Have you contacted the Department of Justice to lodge an accusation against the current MEC?
Look folks, we'll know around Noon on the 20th, and it will be the first time the MEC (both the 10 and the 4), the Officers, the lawyers, or the NC knows how it is going. And then the current disunity will continue.
Look folks, we'll know around Noon on the 20th, and it will be the first time the MEC (both the 10 and the 4), the Officers, the lawyers, or the NC knows how it is going. And then the current disunity will continue.
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