BlackKnight

All known flying means trip lines. R days are not known flying.

Let's look at it this way. Say the company and SIG have to build 100 total lines. 70 are trip lines. 30 are reserve lines. Before, 100%, or all 100, were built prior to VTO's. Now, 70 trip lines will be built, 24 R lines are built, and 6 R lines are put directly into VTO's. Those were not there before. More VTO's...

busdriver12

It is likely there would be plenty of 6 CH trips available. However, if the top priority is to drive each pilot as close as possible to a specific BLG target, and the reserve days gets you closer to the target, it may be likely that you get the reserve days. The company can clear this up in writing (if we are reading this incorrectly) if they wanted to, no problem. In fact, do it now. And while they're at it, specifically explain to us how the current ADOPT system that they're using for VTOs works. Don't leave it to people to speculate, and potentially get it wrong. Why is this a secret? I don't want to spread any bad information, I just want to understand how things work and what is true.

If that was your choice, sure. And it might be, if you live in Memphis. However, if it's not your choice and you're a commuter, you might be paying for several nights in a hotel, to sit and do nothing. Or they could put it before that 60 hour trip, giving you no leveling.

The Walrus

On a VTO, you do not get leveled for trips you fly, unless they are flown on your reserve days.

kronan

I thought we were writing about LAX guys, and now we're back in Memphis. Isn't it even more likely that there'd be a plethora if trips to fill a Senior VTO line, since they'll be built in Seniority Order?

And Turn the page back to 598....I guess I must really misunderstand the English language, because I thought Final Acceptance really means Final Acceptance.

And In the absence of agreement, the SLR shall not be implemented....means barring CDs agreement, the SLR SHALL NOT BE IMPLEMENTED.

Thanks for clarifying that 'soft, permissive' contract language

busdriver12

Substitute LAX for Memphis, and there you go, same difference.

That would be accurate if VTOs were fully built in true seniority order. Meaning all trips open that didn't conflict were assigned to the #1 guy, until he hit the max value. Then on down the line. But it doesn't actually work like that.

2cylinderdriver

How does it work then? Because if you are number one (or whatever number you are) and you submit a request sheet that; at the time your line is built has 1. all requested trips still open (not taken by view/add etc) and 2. the line value is within the range and legal, then you get those trips. If anything other than that happens you should be calling ALPA. Generally people see trips they want go to pilots junior to them because of preferencing something else (days off, max blg etc) that conflicts with getting that trip.

BlackKnight

First, no- getting R days sucks, for commuters. The majority of us are.

Second, I think the days of being on reserve and having a decent chance of not getting called are dwindling. I understand we are undermanned now and not getting called on reserve is slim.

But I don't believe the company is going to man reserves like they used to. In the future I expect they'll push the limit of regular flyers, maximize reserve utilIzation, and fill in the blanks with folks willing to fly extra. Last, trip revise as needed.

FXDX

And ALPA will tell you that those inputs are requests, and the company chose not to honor your request. Have a nice time on reserve. Next!

pipe

History is a beeoch - that's what they'll do.

Pipe

busdriver12

From what I have seen, that is how it goes, sometimes. And I've never been number one, or even close. There have been times that I can cross off all the trips in my request that went to CIC people, therefore unavailable, and everything I asked for that was left, that didn't go to senior VTO holders, went to me. Since I usually run out of trip requests, as you can only ask for so many (and at least 1/3 go to people in the conflict input processing window), eventually my line is filled out with unasked for junk. Everything as expected.

However....sometimes specifically requested trips go to junior VTO holders, sometimes they go unfilled, and stay in open time, and I get the crappiest VTO for a commuter that ever existed. How can this be? I always thought the way you did, and sometimes it works that way. However, I don't know if this is something they are experimenting with, something they have done for a long time...but you know when your VTO goes totally haywire, you think, what, did they forget to input my requests? What happened? I don't understand.

But I think I understand now. I saw a list of what the futures scheduler input, and I don't think any of this is their fault. It is the program. The number one request on that line wasn't the VTO holder's request, it was the companies. It was scored at a value of 100,000 points, and it was to build to a certain credit hour value. Don't remember exactly how it was phrased. The number two request was the VTO holders #1 request, scored at 100 points. It was obvious to me that our requests are tiny, in comparison to the companies requests. They build to their requirements first, and I feel that the reason why the VTO's get so screwed up sometimes is because they will use a trip to make the perfect credit hour value to a VTO holder junior to you. Your seniority doesn't mean as much as company requests. I wonder how often they change the companies requests, but I know they mean far more than yours.

Anyone else know any specific data points? Sure would be nice to know the rules under which we are working, instead of thinking we were randomly screwed, when there actually is a method to the madness.