2cylinderdriver

Ok I get it , you are convinced of a plan to put r days on senior pilots lines (who don't want them). Let's say you are in the top 50% of secondary lines, explain how you think you would get a reserve block that you did not request ? Some months being in the top 50 percentile does not guarantee it because the number of conflict trips and vacation use is just a swag anyway. Generally speaking top 50 is easily all trips even in small bases.

CloudSailor

I'm not convinced there is an 'evil secret plan' to now put R days on senior VTO lines. I am saying we could have EASILY added language that protects us from this possibility. We didn't, not in this TA. We only removed language, and didn't insert any new language to protect us from this possibility that could negatively affect our QOL.

2cylinderdriver

True, but your concern on not having that language is that you are getting r days on senior lines against your wishes. Do you agree that is a false concern even without your suggested language ? If not then how do you see it happening ?

a300fr8dog

The point is there is nothing stopping the new "VTO process" from placing unwanted rdays on the #1 VTO. If it works better for the global solution, oh well. At least you'll know why you got hosed.

It's not a "false concern" at all. We are roughly 60% commuters. Filler Rdays on a commuter's schedule does NOT make a good schedule. Whether it's the #1 VTO or the last.

trashhauler

Hey GRD, where in the TA do you find that there will be more VTO lines? What I saw in the TA is what we have now. All known flying will be built into lines. No where in there does it say they will have the ability to increase the percentage of VTO lines.

The ability to put R days on your VTO line is a good thing in my opinion. Now the bottom 20% to 30% get either all reserve or some reserve. I think it would be nice to be able to pick out of known R days. The first guy cannot be forced to have an R day on his line, unless he wants it.

It will also be nice to be able to adjust vacation to either use less if that is what you want to do.

Finally, anything will be better then the piece of crap VTO system we have now.

busdriver12

Definitely not a false concern, very real. I don't think that there is any evil plot, or any vindictiveness in the possibility that senior VTO holders could get reserve days. It's just the computer program that makes the top priority a credit hour value. Remove the restriction that VTO's need to built trips first(which the TA does), and of course reserve days are now in play for everyone. It's just dumb computer logic, trying to get the optimum solution. And now there will be more reserve days, more VTO's.

However, I really hope that the company finds a way to leave that restriction in (unless reserve blocks are requested). They could relieve our concerns any time they wanted to, and put that in writing. I suppose we will know for certain when they issue new VTO request guidance. If they remove the instruction that you don't have to request "no reserve" because that's an automatic request, we'll see. And when the VTO's come out, we'll see, and hope the concern was unwarranted. If it does happen, we'll all be on this forum screaming.

busdriver12

If they add a large number of reserve blocks into the VTO system, it makes sense that there will be more VTO lines, and less reserve lines.

Why do you think that? With the language removed, a reserve block can be used as filler. What stops that from happening?



Unless we have the same piece of crap VTO system, but now with reserve days assigned, instead of garbage trips.

CloudSailor

Or, unless is satisfies the "global solution".

There is NO language to prevent the #1 guy from having an R day or block of R days on his line. The only language that helped prevent this has been removed. The new language would have been very, very easy to add. Did we try and the company negotiators said no? I don't know the answer. All I know is there is ZERO protection for the most senior VTO holders from having R days on their line. Now, as far as 60-70% of our pilots, who are commuters, think about trying to drop R days, impossible, at least for the last 4 years.

I do agree there are improvements to the process, and am not blinded to that by my overall disappointment in this TA. But, that one sentence removed from the CBA makes me think that VTO's will have even more unknowns now, on DAY 1 after ratification.

...busdriver12 beat me to the explanation, and has much more experience with VTO's than I do.

2cylinderdriver

I still do not see, even with a global solution, how a senior pilot could get r days? FDX pilots are not interested in fully global, zero open time systems. Our secondary lines will continue to be a "mini PBS" run each month. At some point in the run there will be not enough trips for all pilots to have lines of flying only, a generic term for this in most airlines is the "G line" where everyone above the G line is a line holder and everyone below that line is a reserve. Pilots above the G line can bid reserve voluntarily which obviously forces someone below it in the trip world. I just do not see how senior secondary lines will EVER get reserve unless preferences for receiving them are inputted.

I personally trust that it is our best interest and the Company's to have a better product, not worse and as such we will have ALPA pilots involved and if this TA passes I am sure you will see a preference that says trips (any) over R days that will score your days off etc. below the desire to not have r days at any cost. Putting US in front of the computer is a big step in allowing pilots to have many many more inputs than we have in today's ridiculous line by line text inputs. Good discussions here, I hope I am not on here in 6 months eating crow about those involuntary reserve blocks everyone is getting on the top end but I will eat it! Better go work on my bid.

CloudSailor

Then why do we not have this simple sentence in the TA? "unless specifically requested/waived by a pilot who could build a VTO line of pure trips, R days will NOT be placed on his/her line".

Anyway, good luck with your bidding for NOV. I'll do the same now.