What are the Top 10 TA Issues that need Fixin
10-04-2015, 05:42 PM
#81
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Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 360
You can use SeatGuru and any other non-airline website for data, as long as it fits your argument.
We can continue arguing about what the TA's "more than 175 degrees" constitutes, forever. But, it doesn't really matter what we think...because what we think doesn't matter. What does matter is the actual language in the CBA and how the company is going to exploit it.
Anyone that has ever flown intercontinental in a fully reclining, yet angled to the floor seat, knows that it is not a recipe for sleeping well. Thus, the angst.
We can continue arguing about what the TA's "more than 175 degrees" constitutes, forever. But, it doesn't really matter what we think...because what we think doesn't matter. What does matter is the actual language in the CBA and how the company is going to exploit it.
Anyone that has ever flown intercontinental in a fully reclining, yet angled to the floor seat, knows that it is not a recipe for sleeping well. Thus, the angst.
I have flown international on an angled lie flat seat. I agree- it's not conducive (to sleep). Which is also why I said I agree with CS that it should read clearly and concisely "horizontal". However, I also can agree that no one has shown said seat that isn't >175 and horizontal in current airplanes. I just flew on a UAL 777 business class and the seat was horizontal lie flat.
Another concern, and why I'd overall like the old language back, is said 777 had 2+4+2 configuration even in business class. So, you either have people clammering over you or you have to climb over them to get up. I believe that warrants the old "first class if available, if not business class" type language also.
10-04-2015, 06:58 PM
#82
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Dispersing Green House Gasses on a Global Basis
Posts: 1,918
I have flown international on an angled lie flat seat. I agree- it's not conducive (to sleep). Which is also why I said I agree with CS that it should read clearly and concisely "horizontal". However, I also can agree that no one has shown said seat that isn't >175 and horizontal in current airplanes. I just flew on a UAL 777 business class and the seat was horizontal lie flat.
Another concern, and why I'd overall like the old language back, is said 777 had 2+4+2 configuration even in business class. So, you either have people clammering over you or you have to climb over them to get up. I believe that warrants the old "first class if available, if not business class" type language also.
Another concern, and why I'd overall like the old language back, is said 777 had 2+4+2 configuration even in business class. So, you either have people clammering over you or you have to climb over them to get up. I believe that warrants the old "first class if available, if not business class" type language also.
10-05-2015, 07:08 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 360
Yeah- that'll be awesome.
It's another area I feel wasn't fully explained by our NC. There was a question raised about why the 18 hr requirement, on a webcast. The final thing SL said was "it's about moving freight".
Was there a serious problem with 12 hr prior requirements not getting pilots in place? Where are the historical numbers that this was affecting ops? I would've liked to have our NC show us some sort of evidence that this was an issue that needed fixing, or does it give the company more options to revise our trip prior to departure? I am not trying to start another "the sky is falling" or explode an issue that isn't big, or there, I am honestly asking for a better explanation why I may, or most likely will, have to leave a day prior in the future.
It's another area I feel wasn't fully explained by our NC. There was a question raised about why the 18 hr requirement, on a webcast. The final thing SL said was "it's about moving freight".
Was there a serious problem with 12 hr prior requirements not getting pilots in place? Where are the historical numbers that this was affecting ops? I would've liked to have our NC show us some sort of evidence that this was an issue that needed fixing, or does it give the company more options to revise our trip prior to departure? I am not trying to start another "the sky is falling" or explode an issue that isn't big, or there, I am honestly asking for a better explanation why I may, or most likely will, have to leave a day prior in the future.
10-05-2015, 09:32 AM
#84
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Joined APC: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,095
This TA might not pay for itself entirely, but there are some very large numbers $ associated with our 'gives' and the 'company gained efficiencies' that have not been shared with us.
10-05-2015, 10:27 AM
#85
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Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Do people really schedule themselves to arrive 12 hours while deviating before an international flight? I always gave myself a full two days, just to be cautious and rest up after an intercontinental deadhead. You cut it that close, and there could be zero backups and no way to cover your trip. And those Europeans are always going on strike. This seems reasonable, as why should the company have to position standbys all over just to cover a commuter cutting it close?
10-05-2015, 10:43 AM
#86
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Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,224
Do people really schedule themselves to arrive 12 hours while deviating before an international flight? I always gave myself a full two days, just to be cautious and rest up after an intercontinental deadhead. You cut it that close, and there could be zero backups and no way to cover your trip. And those Europeans are always going on strike. This seems reasonable, as why should the company have to position standbys all over just to cover a commuter cutting it close?
10-05-2015, 10:51 AM
#87
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Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
It may have worked out for you, however, I wonder how many people have missed a trip or arrived very late. Not such a big deal in the US, where there are people all over the place, easy to get someone there. Internationally, it could be a significant delay. Arriving at the last minute could mean you've left no legal backups. If there have been service failures because of this, I can see why the company would want to change it. I have seen the company schedule deadheads and min layovers for the last flight of the night, and thought how stupid that was.
10-05-2015, 03:18 PM
#88
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Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 296
Do people really schedule themselves to arrive 12 hours while deviating before an international flight? I always gave myself a full two days, just to be cautious and rest up after an intercontinental deadhead. You cut it that close, and there could be zero backups and no way to cover your trip. And those Europeans are always going on strike. This seems reasonable, as why should the company have to position standbys all over just to cover a commuter cutting it close?
So when you arrive a day early, are you paying for the hotel?
Just because 12hrs is the rule, doesn't mean guys arrive just in time. But it you make the check in 18hrs, you've just made people back up their normal buffer for arriving in place back another 6hrs. It makes a difference.
You are really taking the company's side on this with the fact they shouldn't have to have standbys to cover flights? A standby is a small cost compared to a revenue flight not going.
10-05-2015, 03:55 PM
#89
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Joined APC: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,095
Yes, this does affect commuters, particularly those who live in cities with non-stop flights to where the trip begins. I always gave myself an extra 6 hours, from the 12 (with good weather, no strikes, etc...). Now I would have to give myself an extra 6 hours from the 18, meaning 24 out. It is to discourage commuting. But, this 18 hour checkin doesn't compare to how HILO hurts commuters to the FDA's. That is where the BIG change is.
Should we have just gotten a TA that says "there will be NO commuting allowed?", to protect the freight first and foremost?
10-05-2015, 04:38 PM
#90
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Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Those Intercontinental deadheads can be fatiguing.
So when you arrive a day early, are you paying for the hotel?
Just because 12hrs is the rule, doesn't mean guys arrive just in time. But it you make the check in 18hrs, you've just made people back up their normal buffer for arriving in place back another 6hrs. It makes a difference.
You are really taking the company's side on this with the fact they shouldn't have to have standbys to cover flights? A standby is a small cost compared to a revenue flight not going.
So when you arrive a day early, are you paying for the hotel?
Just because 12hrs is the rule, doesn't mean guys arrive just in time. But it you make the check in 18hrs, you've just made people back up their normal buffer for arriving in place back another 6hrs. It makes a difference.
You are really taking the company's side on this with the fact they shouldn't have to have standbys to cover flights? A standby is a small cost compared to a revenue flight not going.
It is fatiguing to fly two legs that total over ten hours, at least for me. I'm too old to get a nap and then fly a three leg all nighter, after that kind of deadheading, even in business class. And the trips I've been on were scheduled with a 2-3 day layover, so no extra hotel costs. I'm just saying that if there have been service failures, I can understand why the company would want it. I can also understand why the guy who cuts it close would not like this, I realize not everyone avoids extra stress and needs the kind of sleep that I do.
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