Final Vote Percentages - How/Why Signficant?
09-29-2015, 06:17 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
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Final Vote Percentages - How/Why Signficant?
I overheard an interesting conversation in the AOC last week.
The discussion & debate was not only on would the TA pass or fail, and by what margin -- but also the significance of the margin as we move forward.
Amongst this group of pilots, it was agreed that if the TA failed, it was advantageous for it to fail by a relatively broad margin --- 15-30% or more -- which would give our Association negotiators leverage and a clear mandate when reengaging with the company.
However, it was argued by some that if the TA were to pass, it was advantageous for it to only pass by a narrow margin --- less than 10%
The logic being, we'd gain some of the improvements in this TA (mainly an immediate pay raise), but somehow empower our Negotiating Team 6-8 years from now.
Who agrees with this logic?
If true, I find it rather informative that the "Nay" voters are hoping for a strong defeat --- while the "Aye" voters maybe quietly hoping for, and completely satisfied with, a marginal, weak win.
Discuss.
The discussion & debate was not only on would the TA pass or fail, and by what margin -- but also the significance of the margin as we move forward.
Amongst this group of pilots, it was agreed that if the TA failed, it was advantageous for it to fail by a relatively broad margin --- 15-30% or more -- which would give our Association negotiators leverage and a clear mandate when reengaging with the company.
However, it was argued by some that if the TA were to pass, it was advantageous for it to only pass by a narrow margin --- less than 10%
The logic being, we'd gain some of the improvements in this TA (mainly an immediate pay raise), but somehow empower our Negotiating Team 6-8 years from now.
Who agrees with this logic?
If true, I find it rather informative that the "Nay" voters are hoping for a strong defeat --- while the "Aye" voters maybe quietly hoping for, and completely satisfied with, a marginal, weak win.
Discuss.
09-29-2015, 06:59 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
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Posts: 1,199
Every "aye" voter I know wants the TA to pass with 100% acceptance. I did hear a group of "nay" voters say they wanted the option of having sex with chickens in our sleep rooms added to the TA. I found that very revealing.
Discuss
09-29-2015, 07:25 PM
#4
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Edited to add that I guess not all chickens are hens. So I guess that opens the discussion to all variations of chicken love.
09-29-2015, 07:26 PM
#5
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That is a wildly broad assumption based on a single sidebar discussion amongst a group of pilots one night in the AOC.
Every "aye" voter I know wants the TA to pass with 100% acceptance. I did hear a group of "nay" voters say they wanted the option of having sex with chickens in our sleep rooms added to the TA. I found that very revealing.
Discuss
Every "aye" voter I know wants the TA to pass with 100% acceptance. I did hear a group of "nay" voters say they wanted the option of having sex with chickens in our sleep rooms added to the TA. I found that very revealing.
Discuss
First, I understand --- this premise hit a personal nerve.
But, I think the guys discussing this had a valid point.
The TA will "pass" or "fail" --- but the actual final numbers will "send a message" and "set the tone" for what transpires afterwards.
Yes, it was a single sidebar discussion --- I clearly stated that.
Now let's broaden the group of pilots reflecting on it, discussing it and debating it
(...just pilots though, no chickens please)
How will a marginal Yes or No vote affect us moving forward?
How will an overwhelming Yes or No vote affect us moving forward?
I think the margin matters --- significantly!
And I'm pretty sure we all know exactly what the company wants to see.
(Hint, Hint - it certainly isn't 100% acceptance)
09-29-2015, 07:30 PM
#6
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Posts: 1,199
That is a more reasonable premise for a discussion. And I completely agree with your third point.
09-29-2015, 08:43 PM
#7
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Some of the nay voters I heard from were concerned that they wouldn't have the entire crew force covered with just adding hens to the TA. They said we had to think about all pilots, and add roosters too.
Top priority....
Top priority....
09-29-2015, 11:30 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 296
I overheard an interesting conversation in the AOC last week.
The discussion & debate was not only on would the TA pass or fail, and by what margin -- but also the significance of the margin as we move forward.
Amongst this group of pilots, it was agreed that if the TA failed, it was advantageous for it to fail by a relatively broad margin --- 15-30% or more -- which would give our Association negotiators leverage and a clear mandate when reengaging with the company.
However, it was argued by some that if the TA were to pass, it was advantageous for it to only pass by a narrow margin --- less than 10%
The logic being, we'd gain some of the improvements in this TA (mainly an immediate pay raise), but somehow empower our Negotiating Team 6-8 years from now.
Who agrees with this logic?
If true, I find it rather informative that the "Nay" voters are hoping for a strong defeat --- while the "Aye" voters maybe quietly hoping for, and completely satisfied with, a marginal, weak win.
Discuss.
The discussion & debate was not only on would the TA pass or fail, and by what margin -- but also the significance of the margin as we move forward.
Amongst this group of pilots, it was agreed that if the TA failed, it was advantageous for it to fail by a relatively broad margin --- 15-30% or more -- which would give our Association negotiators leverage and a clear mandate when reengaging with the company.
However, it was argued by some that if the TA were to pass, it was advantageous for it to only pass by a narrow margin --- less than 10%
The logic being, we'd gain some of the improvements in this TA (mainly an immediate pay raise), but somehow empower our Negotiating Team 6-8 years from now.
Who agrees with this logic?
If true, I find it rather informative that the "Nay" voters are hoping for a strong defeat --- while the "Aye" voters maybe quietly hoping for, and completely satisfied with, a marginal, weak win.
Discuss.
09-30-2015, 12:50 AM
#9
Organizational Learning
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09-30-2015, 01:14 AM
#10
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Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: MD
Posts: 194
Pointless thread. Chickens? Lesbians? Nonsense.
Focusing on ants versus elephants. No one can honestly say this TA reflects our value to the corporation. No one.
The yes voters are completely focused on the short term.
The no voters see the long term implications of mediocrity and won't settle.
FYIGM (yes) or FYIDeserveBetter (No).
It's simple.
Percentages only reflect the level of a fractured crew force. Up or down, the union leaders have to unify. It'll be a big task. Not sure they have the leadership to accomplish it regardless of the vote. Underwhelmed and disappointed.
Focusing on ants versus elephants. No one can honestly say this TA reflects our value to the corporation. No one.
The yes voters are completely focused on the short term.
The no voters see the long term implications of mediocrity and won't settle.
FYIGM (yes) or FYIDeserveBetter (No).
It's simple.
Percentages only reflect the level of a fractured crew force. Up or down, the union leaders have to unify. It'll be a big task. Not sure they have the leadership to accomplish it regardless of the vote. Underwhelmed and disappointed.
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