busdriver12

Well, we do deserve it, but bourbon? I'd rather have a bottle of water, I think we deserve a full selection of quality beer, wine and liquor, and I won't settle for anything less!

FLMD11CAPT

I also find it interesting and disgusting that the same 4 HIGHLY Vocal, very organized group of 4 (and a deep minority core of followers) are once again in high overdrive trying to tell the Majority (10) and their Majority of followers "Hey, listen to us, we know whats better for you than you do". I voted yes and advocate that all others do as well IF you read the TA and find it mostly good, and a step forward for us.

TonyC

The same 4? You've GOT to be kidding me.

Block 1 - He led the charge for Block Rep recalls not so long ago, stood shoulder to shoulder with you to throw the bums out. Is he one of "the same 4"? That's a bit ridiculous, don't you think?

Block 6 - She's new blood on the MEC, I don't recall her ever being highly vocal or very organized before. She just happens to disagree with you.

Block 11 - This isn't his first rodeo, and he's one of the most level-headed, circumspect men you'll ever meet. He's entitled to his opinion, and he's entitled to communicate it to his Council. I dare you to find where he's said anything to the effect that he knows better than you.

Block 9 (ANC) - One of the most mild-mannered gentleman you could ever know. Your accusations indicate you don't even know who he is.



Instead of attacking the people, why don't you discuss the TA or even something "the same group of 4" has said? Have they said something subversive like, "we hope that your decision will be to join us in our no vote", or was it something more disgusting than that?






.

Raptor

While they may be the minority, it's not by much as some other MEC reps have told me or written they don't like it, but passed it on to the pilots for a vote because of the value it represents.

How else would you expect a vocal minority to act if they thought a colossal mistake was going to be made? I agree that the most recent block 6 post in the initial paragraphs were a bit over the top. But, there have been some very well reasoned posts by all. I don't think I've read any MEC rep to say they know better than us and demand we vote like they tell us.

I'm grateful to have a spirited discussion. In 2006 the dissenting opinions were nipped. I'm glad to see them in all their glory this time. Democracy is messy. I can't think of anything better than to go into this vote eyes wide open, knowing both sides of the TA. A battle over ratification does NOT mean we pilots are at war with ourselves (iPhone autocorrected that to "outlet elves"...maybe should have left that in so there would be some head scratching!)

Have there been excesses? Of course--by both sides. But, finding a defect in an argument doesn't invalidate the entire set of points--on either side. That's why by what set of criteria we measure industry leading pay isn't a critical point for ME as I analyze the entire TA.

The TA has very few people crowing about it. It will affect us for a long time. And QOL givebacks will be gone forever. I'll be happy if people vote knowing lots of details. I fear that a significant portion of people will vote solely based on road shows. I've encountered quite a few--and they are mightily surprised to hear some of the givebacks they don't hear about at the road shows. The machine is geared towards ratification.

Most people on social media are decently informed. Rock, LAG, Albie, and others make some good points. There are a lot of us that make good points about repercussions too.

I voted no. I don't care that you are voting yes, that's fine by me because it seems like you are informed. My life will go on either way. I just want us to beef up contract enforcement either outcome as our contract is nibbled at constantly and we must do a better job enforcing what little we can.

ClutchCargo

Very well written. As was TCs above. It's imperative that all be allowed to comment. Especially those in leadership positions. I would expect all sides to attempt to sway people to see things as they do.

And no witch hunts after this is over. Except possibly Policy Wonk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GetRealDude

There is a distinct difference between an endorsement and a vote to send to the pilots for ratification. It's not just semantics.

I have discussed this at length with 3 block reps. 2 voted yes and 1 voted no. The vote was to send it to us for review and an up or down vote. FACT.

Behind closed doors, our reps insisted the official message to the pilots be that their vote was to send it to the pilots for ratification. Their logic was we've waited long enough and deserved to see the details. What happened next and since then is a complete departure from their intent.

The MEC chairman screwed up. He knows it and admits it - according to multiple sources. I respect CD but he made a mistake. The press release said the MEC voted 10-4 to endorse the TA. That was NOT what the block reps directed. Just to clarify, the top 3 work FOR the MEC ... not the other way around.

Since the press release, the NC and comm staff has engaged in a full blown sales job. I think we all deserve the good, the bad, and the ugly as it relates to the TA. Instead, the only way to find out the potential pitfalls and not so pretty elements of the TA, one must do their own due diligence or hope your question is answered by the NC. Admittedly, that should happen anyway. I expect my dues money expenditures to include full disclosure by the NC on this TA and that has not happened IMO.

Within the last 2 days, the 10 members of the MEC have changed their tune. Originally, their vote was based on sending the TA to us for ratification. Now it's become a full blown endorsement and discrediting effort toward the 4 vocal minority. I find that quite telling. The question is why? Draw your own conclusions but it's a spider web of circumstances.

I can further opine on why, but I've been asked in confidence to refrain.

The best I can hope for is an informed membership that weighs the pros and cons and votes their conscience. The problem is a significant percentage of our membership is uninformed or informed solely on the basis of videos that only highlight the content the NC wants them to see.

The real TA is found in the blue print, not the videos. I certainly hope the last roadshow is productive and revealing.

CloudSailor

^^^This.

It would be nice for GetRealDude and Raptor (or are you two the same person? ), to produce some videos with our union dues, to be sent out to the entire crew force.

Seriously though, I am confident this TA would be rejected by a solid majority and that we would be going back to the table if the presentation was completely transparent. If the presentation clearly discussed the good, the bad, and the ugly found in this TA, presented in the videos, the call-ins, the Q&A, and most importantly, the roadshows, there would be an improved TA2 in the future.

The way roadshows, videos and Q&A's work, create a conflict of interest. The presenters, who are supposed to remain neutral, are the same exact people who produced the work they are presenting to us. It doesn't make sense really. It makes it impossible for the presentation to then remain neutral. It's human nature I suppose (meaning, none of us would fare any better at producing an unbiased presentation, of the product we ourselves created).

GetRealDude

We're not the same guy but I'd be happy to break out the wallet and cover Raptor and CS at the bar. Hell, I'd relish the chance to sit down with LAG too.

I applaud the membership initiative behind PurpleTA.com and thehiddenarrows.com

The real issue is WHY was it necessary to establish these grassroots websites if we had true transparency and full disclosure from our NC and MEC?

This is not a life or death situation clearly. But it damn sure is our professional careers and our quality of life as the most productive front line employees at this airline. Average and mediocre don't cut it. Everyone here deserves better, but it requires unity and an unbreakable commitment to get it done. TA2 shouldn't require a full rewrite, rather necessary adjustments that we can all be proud of. TA1 is not that document.

pipe

Fine, I'll bite.

What's the name of the company? Do you know of a good energy drink? I'm looking for a quality multivitamin that can be shipped to my home. If I really believe in the product, is there any way that I can sell it myself?

pipe

Refrain......or do what's right. If you really have information that this operation is crooked, you owe it to every one of us to produce that information.

Pipe