TonyC

I realize we all will look at the deal in terms of how does it affect me. But should that be the only test, the only consideration?

Shouldn't there also be an element of how does it affect US? Heck the _____ doesn't affect me, so I don't care. I've never used ______, so that's not a factor for me to consider. I can pay for my own _______, so I'd rather not worry about that.

Well, there are plenty of people who ARE affected by ______, and many of my brothers and sisters DO use _______ all the time, and there are a whole bunch of junior teammates who can't afford to pay for their own _______ -- so I ought to be concerned about all of them.

And then there's a bigger us, a more global family, the profession we enjoy and represent, and the profession we should be trying to promote. What about that kid in school with aspirations of a flying career, or the guy over at Delta or United or You-Name-It who is looking to us to establish a target they can leapfrog so we can leapfrog them. We aren't working for a carrier on the brink of extinction -- we shouldn't be satisfied giving away the things that were taken from them. We have an obligation to improve the profession.


We all condemn the "Pull Up The Ladder, I've Got Mine" mentality -- but isn't the "Me, me, me" mentality just a different flavor of the same stuff? What makes this a good deal for US?






.

busdriver12

If one is to be honest, I suspect that kid in school with aspirations of a flying career is looking at our current widebody captains making 300-400K+, thinking "holy crap".

md11freightdog

Tony--the question has been asked about the slogan "my negotiating committee speaks for me". It has been stated by more than one pilot advocating a no vote, that that slogan ends when it comes to voting, that it is a personal decision. It is not based on future hires, or how it affects other line pilots. As Albie stated with a great deal of clarity, each pilot has to make their own decision. I do not believe it is based on what someone might think of us who is an aspiring pilot or what a DAL or UAL pilot's opinion is. The decision each pilot makes is their own. It is not one based on fear (as some "no" votes have strongly suggested) but based on a risk/reward analysis. What is the risk in voting down this TA and what is the likely reward of waiting 2 years for a new one and will it be substantially improved enough to warrant 18-24 months of the same. It is the same methodology used by us in the cockpits and when we manage our investments. As far as young people aspiring to join our ranks and see 300-400k, busdriver12 said it perfectly " Holy Crap!"

CloudSailor

Well said TonyC.

With my vote on this TA I do take into account the perspective of our career paths, before, now and in the future, and how much has been taken from us by this industry already. Even though most of us will vote our own interests first, we should realize that our interests now might not be the same in 5 years. Those QOL issues that don't affect me today, might tomorrow. Those concessions I don't understand clearly now, might be painfully clear tomorrow.

We are at a time of such huge financial success in our own company, that conceding to not meet our most important openers, while additionally giving back in multiple gained efficiencies that will hurt our QOL in the long run, feels like a disservice to our careers and everything we have worked so hard to achieve.

We are so concerned with the loss in pay over the oft repeated '24 month timeframe' that we are willing to ink a deal that will set us back in QOL for close to a decade. Work rules will NEVER come back. Pay will. And to those FO's out there who think, let's pass this TA so that I can really start making money with my 10% raise, open your eyes to the big picture: this TA will keep wide body and narrow body captains in their seats for a lot longer, which directly affects a possibility for much higher income: upgrade.

urinmyseat

I agree with Tony,

This is a problem with society in general. We only worry about ourselves. Gone are the days of self sacrifice, and team concept. At my past carriers the Capt.'s would stand up for the junior pilots, sometimes at their own detriment. This caused the junior folks to support their capt.'s at all cost. It is called Team Building. We do have some folks doing this here, and I appreciate that, but it is by far, too few examples. This self absorbed mantra is the same reason Fantasy Football is so popular. We build our own team, who cares if our city's team wins, as long as my personal team makes gains.

ME on one, check ready BREAK!

CloudSailor

Those kids should say "holy crap!, adjusted for inflation, isn't that less than what my grandpa made when he was a pilot, working far fewer days, in the 70's and 80's?"

Now if you really want to impress those kids, show them what airline management made back then, and what they make now.

Rock

This TA is full of improvements that will help me, and other pilots who follow similar career paths at FedEx. So based on the "think about the other guy when you vote" theory, you should vote yes.
Conversely, if you vote no because you think you are doing me a favor based on your perception of what my life at FedEx should look like, don't. I don't want you trying to determine what my life should look like.
Instead, I want you to vote based on how you perceive this TA will impact YOUR life. That is your area of expertise. And if enough people share your opinion, the final outcome will match the needs of a majority of the people voting. That's a good thing.
So base your vote on what you know. Not on what you think you know.

FoxHunter

Bingo! Robert Six, CEO of Continental Airlines from 1936 to 1981 said "Some of my VPs earn almost as much as my Captains". Paul C. Has done such a great job with this contract he will be highly rewarded for his great work on behalf of the Corporation. No doubt Paul's replacement will look forward to the next contract so he can repeat Paul's success so he also will receive his just rewards. Just remember the slide downhill tend to increase on speed over time. At least you all belong to a National Union that can fight the fight. One well funded Army with your dues. Sort of reminds me the Army we built with our tax money . The Army of Iraq.

MaxKts

It also has many things that will negatively impact your life so you should also vote NO!

That can go both ways! I don't want your low self worth determining what my life should be like!


Are you saying "my negotiating committee speaks for me" never applied? It has always been just about you and what your wants and desires are?

Again, sorry you set your standards so low!

iarapilot

Using that convoluted logic, I guess I should pick up all the flying I can. Hey, lets go for DPs too....what the heck. Thats the team spirit. Unfreakin believable. Seriously. 4a2b, no prob. There should be enough to go around.