busdriver12

Hey, OP, why let this thread evolve into personal insults? How about taking control and bringing it back to topic? How about getting back to perspective and opinion of the TA?

Busboy

I'm going to throw out the gender card...

There are some here at FDX that need to go the uniform store and buy a pair of pants in a man's size.

A labor union only succeeds when the members and the leaders that they elect, are ready and willing to do whatever it takes to reach their goals. Our leaders blinked, and thus failed. Our goals were not met.

Thanks for the hard work. No thanks, on your results. Next. I'm willing to wait.

TonyC

I think you've reached your quota of questions for the day. It's time to contribute something useful to the discussions.






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busdriver12

Thanks for being the monitor of how many questions one is allowed to ask, Tony. That is very important, no doubt, and I'll try not to ask any more questions of you!

However, you are the OP of this thread. You are supposed to be in control of this, and you are letting it devolve (and participating it). You are the one who needs to take control and get it back to topic.

As my useful contribution of the day, I request (without question marks), that you get back to your point.

So what more can you tell us about your perspective and opinion of the current TA? No, no, I didn't mean to put the question mark, oh no....ah...how about, I really wish that Tony would give us more information about his perspective and opinion of the current TA! (But I dare not ask him the question).

Rock

When you introduce an unflattering caricature of a slave, submissively but gratefully "chopping" cotton for his "massah", as an attempt to insult my fortitude and intelligence, you are using a racial stereotype in an attempt to win an argument. Again...bad form.
If your argument has any real substance, why would you revert to a direct, personal attack in the first place? I'll tell you what...the internet is more or less anonymous. You don't know who I am. But the next time you are in the AOC, why don't you approach a black pilot at random and ask if they are voting yes or no on the TA. If they say yes, respond with... "You seem content to lower your gaze and answer, "Yes, Massah. Thank ya, Massah." I guess we should just shut up and sharpen our hoes, there's cotton to be chopped!" And then explain the intellectual depth of your chosen line of arguement.
Good luck.

TonyC

I wouldn't do that to a random pilot of any color, but I guess you think black is the important color. I chose the comparison because you have continually argued the case that we should simply take the offer that has been made and stop complaining, as if we have no right to expect or ask for more. That's not a racial stereotype, it's a plantation hand mentality. If you see a color, it's your stereotype, not mine. And if you can't make that connection, I don't think there's much more I can do to help.






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busdriver12

I think it's pretty obvious that if you are talking about plantation hand mentality, that you are making a slam against blacks. Not Arabs, Asians, Europeans or Mexicans. Don't need to know much history to figure that one out.

Rock

We have every right to ask for more. My point all along has been, if we do, and we actually expect to get more, we need a more convincing argument than "give us more because we think we deserve more." As I mentioned previously, you do a great job of listing all the things you don't like about the current TA. But complaining about something is the easy part. Finding solutions to what you are complaining about takes real work. So far, the most common solution I've read is, "we reject this TA and reopen negotiations." That isn't a solution. That's just the next step. To believe it's a solution, you must assume that our current NC didn't spend four years exhausting every approach to wrestle as much as they could from the company. They must have missed some opportunity that would have convinced the company to increase our payrates above what is listed in the TA, and improve our A plan, and fix all the other countless things you've listed over the last couple weeks. Your solution seems to be that by simply informing our NC and the company through a no vote, that we want more, they will have a eureka moment and quickly adjust everything upward to make us happy.
I'm not buying it. So before I vote to shelve the gains our NC did accomplish in this TA, I want to see some evidence that we aren't trying to move forward without an effective strategy to accomplish what someone else characterized as "eye-watering" improvements. Our MEC chair said in his recent email that "we have plans." He mentioned informational picketing and unity events. Sound familiar? Can you help him out?

Raptor

I believe the individual desires of the pilots to spend quality time with their families is why we have THIS TA and aren't waiting another year. It doesn't take many calls from car company CEOs to make an impact.

The NC in webcast number 1 (watch the video) says one day to the next is the first time to company put forward even the minimal TA we have in front of this now. I heard (with no first hand confirmation, so I can't gauge the truth) that the NC signed NDAs and saw the books which convinced them. I feel we took the first offer and wonder why we didn't go back and forth another month or so as peak loomed ever closer?

Our leverage is the company's desire to have labor peace so it doesn't affect their bottom line. We have a much more energized group of pilots than we did in 2006. I have faith, that while the process may not be fast, that we will get an improved TA a second time around.

My fellow pilots will speak for me--and the company will listen.

Hercmerc

Just voted "NO".

I don't like the length of this TA. If it was eye watering, I'd be ok with the length, but to me, it's below marginal, so I can't support it.

The A plan needs work. I don't count on it when figuring my retirement, but I also began investing for retirement as a 22 year old 2nd Lt. If I stopped working now, I'd be ok. But as long as we have it, it needs to keep up with the times.
There are other things, too, but overall it goes on too long for the minor benefits we were offered.