FedEx Hiring
05-09-2017, 08:41 PM
#2466
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
Actually, its ongoing and rather sensitive at the moment. If you like the guy or appreciated his business it might be nice to leave this alone for a few more weeks.
I can say nobody from the flight line or flight ops complained about issue, or his performance in any way. This came from an outside source and went through legal.
Our business has prepared people for the communication and CRM exercises in vogue at SWA, FDX, UAL, and other places for years. I was asked to discuss same with management back in 04/05. I made it clear we had no inside info, nor was anything "extracted" from the inside the hiring empire. (Honestly--most interviews are interviews....airline, ANG hiring board, beauty pageant, med school interview, etc etc. It isn't rocket surgery, but like many things in life a little structure and a some solid practice can help tremendously...)
The biggest difference between his situation and mine was A) he was on probation which means he is an at will employee and B) Flight ops had more input (vice legal) back in that era. Sometime about the OR era I think some of the balance of power must have changed. I interviewed with JL, our CP, who actually listened to what I had to offer and at the end of the day told me to press on. There were lawyers in the room during this latest event. With Jack, it was just two former fighter pilots/current airline guys having a "discussion". The fact one was my CP was not lost on me, but I also didn't let stop me from making a strong case for what we did (and did not) do. I genuinely appreciated the fact he didn't just transmit. We flew together several times in the -11, including a checkride for him over to Europe and another trip his last month on the property. I again told him how much I appreciated how we were able to work things out in that earlier meeting.
You are vulnerable as a probationary pilot, period. On another note, I had a recent SWA new hire that was eager to work for my company, and is fired up about helping others join the team at SWA. I told him I would not hire him until well after his first year, if at all, because they will fire a probationary pilot there if they think he does any prep. (They hate prep generally, and ECIC specifically...) He didn't believe me at first, but I simply reminded him it wasn't his choice, and I had been around longer in this business. If he wants to work in a prep company his first year, it won't be for me, and odds are he will be fired. I pass that on to anyone else here who has grand visions of doing much outside their day job year 1. My advice is to learn your NEW job, get good at it, and then figure out when done with that 1st year checkride what you might want to do in your side career. I've heard enough captains over the years mention seeing their FO on the computer or cell phone until show time, then showing up (and this is their perspective--not mine) unaware and distracted during the flight prep briefing. Again--your time is your time--and I'm not here to lecture anyone because my first 7 years at FedEx I had THREE jobs going on--but the tone you set at the trip folder and discussions enroute is noticed by your captain and may effect your probation reports. I'd be "all business" year one at my airline, at least on airline property. FWIW I didn't really kick it up that much until year 2 or 3 on the property anyway. You worked for decades to get this job--so just make job 1 your main focus for a while.
What I think many airline recruiting and hiring departments fail to understand is there is no such thing as close hold info anymore. As soon as 8 guys walk in for an interview at Delta, that night someone has put their demographic info on the internet somewhere. (i.e....3 AF, 1 Marine, 2 corp, 2 regional....etc). They run down the results (CJO for all except 1 AF guy and 1 regional...) and many times post info on the questions asked and other gossip (...they told us to expect a May 15 class...) The internet has become the Roman Coliseum, full of spectators watching the interviewing pilots face the lions. This is why its so incredibly unwise for airlines to discriminate, because its not just the EEOC or USERA folks looking at stats its the whole dang world....and even spectators can notice trends. The pilots eaten by the lions--who do not face non-disclosure issues (i.e...you cannot fire me if you didn't hire me first....) are the ones who then post detailed blow by blow accounts of the interview questions on various third party websites like AviationInterviews or Will Fly For Food.
One thing I will share from interview all those years ago with the CP was he asked about our old testing and how some of the test questions were compromised. It was obvious that was a sore point. I mentioned first that my group didn't even do test prep, and used the analogy of someone smoking pot at a concert passing a joint around back when I was in HS or college. I knew I had plans in life, and I let that stuff just pass me on by...I wanted an AFROTC pilot slot and knew that stuff could keep me from it. We didn't touch and would not touch it. "Who did then?" he asked... I told him his new hires were terrified of him, and would never do anything to put their jobs at risk. "Who then?"--I told him what I suspected--that is was his interviewing captains--just passing down the gouge like someone had done for them, trying to help a few of their friends have the same chance at this career they did. He looked stunned for a couple seconds, and thought about it, then just said "...thank you ...." I don't think they ever even considered for a second perhaps some of their issues were coming from inside. I have no way of knowing what was really going on, but I will say for the last decade and change they have left me alone since.
I do have one major beef with RST, and its got nothing to do with the founder but rather with the people who use it. The problem with a test emulator/study guide or similar products is sometimes it is possible to study the test and not the subject matter. The guide is so good, people were nailing the test. "What about this question?" or "What is the answer to that question...?" works pretty well when discussing Mach Tuck, Dutch Roll, or the stages of a jet engine. The problem is it doesn't work worth a damn at communication or soft skills, or CRM. Maybe its generational, but so many pilots have asked for for "solutions" or "answers" to interview questions when what they really need to do is learn the thought process behind them, do some self analysis, and most importantly practice. You can sort of "study for the test" with an interview, but you won't do nearly as well as if you just prepare to communicate and learn the core principles. Doing it the latter way is harder, takes a bit more time, but when someone crumples up the old question lists and says "okay--here's a whole new set of questions..." it just won't matter. I have seen a trend of people who want "easy" answers and cookie cutter solutions for interviews. It might work for the test, and RST does a great job on that--but it won't work for what we do on our side.
I can say nobody from the flight line or flight ops complained about issue, or his performance in any way. This came from an outside source and went through legal.
Our business has prepared people for the communication and CRM exercises in vogue at SWA, FDX, UAL, and other places for years. I was asked to discuss same with management back in 04/05. I made it clear we had no inside info, nor was anything "extracted" from the inside the hiring empire. (Honestly--most interviews are interviews....airline, ANG hiring board, beauty pageant, med school interview, etc etc. It isn't rocket surgery, but like many things in life a little structure and a some solid practice can help tremendously...)
The biggest difference between his situation and mine was A) he was on probation which means he is an at will employee and B) Flight ops had more input (vice legal) back in that era. Sometime about the OR era I think some of the balance of power must have changed. I interviewed with JL, our CP, who actually listened to what I had to offer and at the end of the day told me to press on. There were lawyers in the room during this latest event. With Jack, it was just two former fighter pilots/current airline guys having a "discussion". The fact one was my CP was not lost on me, but I also didn't let stop me from making a strong case for what we did (and did not) do. I genuinely appreciated the fact he didn't just transmit. We flew together several times in the -11, including a checkride for him over to Europe and another trip his last month on the property. I again told him how much I appreciated how we were able to work things out in that earlier meeting.
You are vulnerable as a probationary pilot, period. On another note, I had a recent SWA new hire that was eager to work for my company, and is fired up about helping others join the team at SWA. I told him I would not hire him until well after his first year, if at all, because they will fire a probationary pilot there if they think he does any prep. (They hate prep generally, and ECIC specifically...) He didn't believe me at first, but I simply reminded him it wasn't his choice, and I had been around longer in this business. If he wants to work in a prep company his first year, it won't be for me, and odds are he will be fired. I pass that on to anyone else here who has grand visions of doing much outside their day job year 1. My advice is to learn your NEW job, get good at it, and then figure out when done with that 1st year checkride what you might want to do in your side career. I've heard enough captains over the years mention seeing their FO on the computer or cell phone until show time, then showing up (and this is their perspective--not mine) unaware and distracted during the flight prep briefing. Again--your time is your time--and I'm not here to lecture anyone because my first 7 years at FedEx I had THREE jobs going on--but the tone you set at the trip folder and discussions enroute is noticed by your captain and may effect your probation reports. I'd be "all business" year one at my airline, at least on airline property. FWIW I didn't really kick it up that much until year 2 or 3 on the property anyway. You worked for decades to get this job--so just make job 1 your main focus for a while.
What I think many airline recruiting and hiring departments fail to understand is there is no such thing as close hold info anymore. As soon as 8 guys walk in for an interview at Delta, that night someone has put their demographic info on the internet somewhere. (i.e....3 AF, 1 Marine, 2 corp, 2 regional....etc). They run down the results (CJO for all except 1 AF guy and 1 regional...) and many times post info on the questions asked and other gossip (...they told us to expect a May 15 class...) The internet has become the Roman Coliseum, full of spectators watching the interviewing pilots face the lions. This is why its so incredibly unwise for airlines to discriminate, because its not just the EEOC or USERA folks looking at stats its the whole dang world....and even spectators can notice trends. The pilots eaten by the lions--who do not face non-disclosure issues (i.e...you cannot fire me if you didn't hire me first....) are the ones who then post detailed blow by blow accounts of the interview questions on various third party websites like AviationInterviews or Will Fly For Food.
One thing I will share from interview all those years ago with the CP was he asked about our old testing and how some of the test questions were compromised. It was obvious that was a sore point. I mentioned first that my group didn't even do test prep, and used the analogy of someone smoking pot at a concert passing a joint around back when I was in HS or college. I knew I had plans in life, and I let that stuff just pass me on by...I wanted an AFROTC pilot slot and knew that stuff could keep me from it. We didn't touch and would not touch it. "Who did then?" he asked... I told him his new hires were terrified of him, and would never do anything to put their jobs at risk. "Who then?"--I told him what I suspected--that is was his interviewing captains--just passing down the gouge like someone had done for them, trying to help a few of their friends have the same chance at this career they did. He looked stunned for a couple seconds, and thought about it, then just said "...thank you ...." I don't think they ever even considered for a second perhaps some of their issues were coming from inside. I have no way of knowing what was really going on, but I will say for the last decade and change they have left me alone since.
I do have one major beef with RST, and its got nothing to do with the founder but rather with the people who use it. The problem with a test emulator/study guide or similar products is sometimes it is possible to study the test and not the subject matter. The guide is so good, people were nailing the test. "What about this question?" or "What is the answer to that question...?" works pretty well when discussing Mach Tuck, Dutch Roll, or the stages of a jet engine. The problem is it doesn't work worth a damn at communication or soft skills, or CRM. Maybe its generational, but so many pilots have asked for for "solutions" or "answers" to interview questions when what they really need to do is learn the thought process behind them, do some self analysis, and most importantly practice. You can sort of "study for the test" with an interview, but you won't do nearly as well as if you just prepare to communicate and learn the core principles. Doing it the latter way is harder, takes a bit more time, but when someone crumples up the old question lists and says "okay--here's a whole new set of questions..." it just won't matter. I have seen a trend of people who want "easy" answers and cookie cutter solutions for interviews. It might work for the test, and RST does a great job on that--but it won't work for what we do on our side.
Last edited by Albief15; 05-09-2017 at 08:54 PM.
05-09-2017, 09:05 PM
#2467
Organizational Learning
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
.
05-10-2017, 06:28 AM
#2468
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 23
Got a question- Pilot Credentials "references" section says, in bold, "Only FedEx references should be listed below". Is it acceptable to list a retired FedEx pilot, and if so, how is this reflected? The application asks for an employee number and has a drop down for employer, "retired" is not an option.
Thanks in advance to all you experienced folks who peruse these threads and pass your nuggets of info and insight down to us newbies and wannabes.
Thanks in advance to all you experienced folks who peruse these threads and pass your nuggets of info and insight down to us newbies and wannabes.
I'm not 100% sure, but I had a guy listed, then he retired, and I never removed it. I got an interview. He was a recent retiree, with the year.
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05-15-2017, 04:51 AM
#2470
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: Maddog baby!
Posts: 79
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