Bidpacks
09-08-2024, 04:53 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,124
Along with (because of?) FDX having more aircraft and more pilots, FDX and UPS air networks are designed from different philosophies - especially internationally. It would appear that FDX's current corporate transformation is moving their ground and air network somewhat towards where UPS has been, but time will tell if that ultimately proves to be reality.
09-08-2024, 04:56 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,124
Good discussion and thank you to our UPS brother for his contributions.
I think there's an important distinction here that's being ignored. Most of the discussion here is about "flying" and who does it. But few, if any, are talking freight and who flies it.
Airline X flies a route in their aircraft contracted by FedEx (or UPS) under the FedEx (or UPS) operating certificate (true wet-leasing)carrying whatever FedEx (or UPS) has deemed should go from that origin to that destination. Or a company does the same with their own certificate and route authority operates in a similar fashion without the use of the FedEx (or UPS) certificate like ASL or Star Air. That's "flying" that everyone in this discussion would love to have captured and only done by the pilots on the FedEx (or UPS) MSL pilots.
But language dealing with those situations doesn't address FedEx (or UPS) freight and how it moves. We can have all the protections in the world controlling who is piloting aircraft being flown under our certificate or on our employers behalf and still lose when our companies choose to move their freight in another manner they feel works better. Ship, truck, dog sled or in the bellys of various aircraft operating worldwide carrying pax with extra space under their feet. Tracking an aircraft being flown on behalf of FedEx (or UPS) is a much easier task than tracking cans and pallets of freight being moved piecemeal through the worldwide cargo system.
I don't claim enough expertise to speak about this and I wonder if others with better knowledge might share their viewpoints. Thanks.
I think there's an important distinction here that's being ignored. Most of the discussion here is about "flying" and who does it. But few, if any, are talking freight and who flies it.
Airline X flies a route in their aircraft contracted by FedEx (or UPS) under the FedEx (or UPS) operating certificate (true wet-leasing)carrying whatever FedEx (or UPS) has deemed should go from that origin to that destination. Or a company does the same with their own certificate and route authority operates in a similar fashion without the use of the FedEx (or UPS) certificate like ASL or Star Air. That's "flying" that everyone in this discussion would love to have captured and only done by the pilots on the FedEx (or UPS) MSL pilots.
But language dealing with those situations doesn't address FedEx (or UPS) freight and how it moves. We can have all the protections in the world controlling who is piloting aircraft being flown under our certificate or on our employers behalf and still lose when our companies choose to move their freight in another manner they feel works better. Ship, truck, dog sled or in the bellys of various aircraft operating worldwide carrying pax with extra space under their feet. Tracking an aircraft being flown on behalf of FedEx (or UPS) is a much easier task than tracking cans and pallets of freight being moved piecemeal through the worldwide cargo system.
I don't claim enough expertise to speak about this and I wonder if others with better knowledge might share their viewpoints. Thanks.
09-09-2024, 08:06 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,113
But language dealing with those situations doesn't address FedEx (or UPS) freight and how it moves. We can have all the protections in the world controlling who is piloting aircraft being flown under our certificate or on our employers behalf and still lose when our companies choose to move their freight in another manner they feel works better. Ship, truck, dog sled or in the bellys of various aircraft operating worldwide carrying pax with extra space under their feet. Tracking an aircraft being flown on behalf of FedEx (or UPS) is a much easier task than tracking cans and pallets of freight being moved piecemeal through the worldwide cargo system.
I don't claim enough expertise to speak about this and I wonder if others with better knowledge might share their viewpoints. Thanks.
And it certainly counts for something that UPS management, after all these years, has not even attempted to circumvent the IPA's enforcement mechanism posted earlier. It is simple contract law between two private parties. It certainly has been a deterrent. In any case, I rather have their language in our contract when making the argument before an arbitrator or judge than not having the language.
09-09-2024, 12:32 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,124
I think you are absolutely 100% correct. Best case is we get some better definitions that provide nothing to those worried about Fedex getting rid of your job. But it'll come with a cost - mainly time but certainly some other capital as well.
09-09-2024, 02:18 PM
#56
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 45
I hope you’re wrong. Without improved scope the value of this job will continue to degrade at an ever increasing pace. So, I’m willing to go to the mat on better scope, that recognizes the pilot group’s contribution and protects our jobs. I don’t believe I’m alone in this either
09-09-2024, 04:13 PM
#57
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 79
Thankfully we voted down the language those clowns from the previous NC and MEC tried to get by us. We do have a way to change the language… it’s called strike. I’m ready.
09-09-2024, 04:26 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 513
I hope you’re wrong. Without improved scope the value of this job will continue to degrade at an ever increasing pace. So, I’m willing to go to the mat on better scope, that recognizes the pilot group’s contribution and protects our jobs. I don’t believe I’m alone in this either
09-09-2024, 04:53 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 105
Who knows if we will ever be released, but the NMB has pushed back rather strongly recently at the notion that they would never allow the RLA to play out. Post-election may prove to be a much different environment and mindset than we currently have and could set the stage for what may be the only true way to settle this once and for all. Let’s hope anyways.
09-10-2024, 12:42 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,113
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