Maddog64

Or, how about they knew we wouldn't be released just like we knew we wouldn't be released, and they were going to accept our offer. Why accept our offer and the increased costs that come with it if you know that we will not be back in talks for 6 or more months. Then agree to our request. Seems like a good idea to me.

opt0712

Rep said the same thing I've experienced in previous negotiations with the NMB's help: They can petition the NMB at any time to get a deal done. Crickets. Guess it wasn't all that good like many think.

opt0712

It's called a process and utilizing levers throughout said process. The last comm before PM left gave you an overview of everything you needed to know about how far apart we were.

Cowpoke

I stand corrected. It’s called Levers JustIn.

JustInFacts

If that is all it takes and the MEC thinks that the NMB will be agreeable, then why doesn't the MEC petition the NMB to start negotiations now and make the company say no. Maybe they don't think the NMB will allow that to happen. Last time we had a status meeting was last October. We started negotiations again 6+weeks later. So we had sessions in December, January and February and then the 8 decided they had a plan. Now we are facing negotiations at the height of an election, the holidays, and a probable change in administrations. It's not looking like we will have anything anytime soon.

opt0712

And what did we get out of those sessions? Medical freedom language. That's BS and foot dragging. Again if the company was serious they could have easily gotten a deal done with targeted negotiations, but they didn't. So the plug was pulled. How much longer will the Stockholm Syndrome play out before it's time to leave?

JustInFacts

For someone who says they've been through this before, you seem to think that the company will just give us what we ask for if we turn down the first TA. Have you read the updates? Has the company moved towards our positions on items? The fact that they had increased the 2024 pay rate to the 2025 rate shows that there was movement. Maybe not as much as you would have wanted and still not acceptable, but what did you think would happen? Did you think that the company would say, "hey, you got us, here is the contract that you wanted. See you in a few years." The TC8 couldn't wait 2 more weeks for the company response. If that response would have been so terrible, then they would have had more ammunition to ask the NMB for a release. The mediator had asked both sides to give their best offers. That doesn't mean that there wouldn't have been more sessions, but it would mean that if there wasn't significant movement towards an agreement, there would be a higher chance of being released. Now, we will be waiting at least 6+ months to see if the NMB will allow us to start negotiating again. Though they can't tell us what we can ask for, they can determine if they think we and the company are being reasonable. If they think we are being unreasonable, they will never release us.

I see you totally ignored us petitioning the NMB to start negotiations. Maybe we don't because we were put on ice even though the MEC put out a Q&A saying that we wouldn't be.

It's funny that a few years ago you were talking about all the draft you were doing, and now you ask how much longer Stockholm Syndrome will last until it's time to leave.

opt0712

THe NMB is currently busy with the United and AA FAs. That does beg the question of: was a formal request made to the NMB on our behalf? Or was our strategy to get replacements trained and ready to go, then engage the NMB? Definitely a good question.

Not sure how flying draft and my Stockholm Syndrome comments are related. The company's change in landscape between then and now are irrefutable. I'm not expecting the company to come back with everything we want. However, the paltry and insulting moves toward us weren't cutting it and not even equal to the current landscape. Again, been through this before and the waiting game sucks. Negotiations fatigue is rampant around here and the people I hear complaining about how long it has been taking, are the ones who were willing to sell the farm affecting current, past, and future union bros for an insulting TA1.

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sailingfun

If the NMB feels management is being unreasonable they threaten a release. If they feel labor is being unreasonable they delay or ice you. Those are really the only effective tools the NMB has to work with.

JustInFacts

At the end of December, there was a strategy called the path forward. 10 of the current 14 reps voted on that strategy. 8 of those 10 voted in favor of that strategy. That strategy had a plan to train a replacement negotiating committee while continuing negotiations under the strict guidance of the MEC. The MEC had to approve all proposals and had to approve anything that was agreed to. In March, the MEC put out a message to each LEC stating that asking for release didn't mean that we couldn't resume negotiations in a short period of time. There was no mention of a required status meeting. No mention of having to wait until Fall to resume negotiations. So, was waiting until the Fall to resume negotiations in the plan? Was the NMB saying that we are too busy for you in the plan?