Moneybags

Wait. Explain how the company gets to use that money?
Also, the company would have stopped funding the pension? What about for people who stayed in it?

Anthrax

eeeeventually the last pilot will collect the final a-fund check, and then you tell me: where does whatever money is left in this massive pot go? where does it go? ask the union and they shrug their shoulders and say it’s complicated. maybe it is, but one thing is certain: the pilots won’t see a dime. now, maybe my understanding from what i have gleaned of this is misguided, but i don’t think so, and my trust in this company doing right by the pilots is gone.

Rock

The last few years it’s been a net revenue loser. Like $400 million net loser. We’ve had to fly airplanes to all the contracted cities but with very little mail. That ends 29 Sept. That’s great for the company’s bottom line. It sucks for us because it is going to be a very significant reduction in day domestic flying.

Moneybags

There are laws when it comes to retirement. Company could only take any remaining funds once everyone is made whole. The pension has a ton of people in it, more non pilots than pilots, that the company has to pay for years as well.

CloudSailor

Hey Moneybags, do you think UPS pilots would be IDIOTIC enough to negotiate away their A Plan? No way. Why? Because their minds haven't been whittled down by their own union's top negotiator for years, saying, "The A Plan needs to go".

You see, sunsetting the A Plan is exactly what the company wants. They want to divide our crew force, always. Dividing retirements would help them achieve that goal.

You've been Jedi mind-******* into believing that giving up a Pension is in your best interest.

Sluggo_63

UPS/IPA hasn’t improved the FAE portion of their A plan either. They’re letting that die on the vine as well.

You’d have to ask a UPSer why that wasn’t improved ever.

They did negotiate the FDA portion of the A plan. I don’t know the current numbers but I still don’t think it matches ours yet (unless you’re a Captain with just under 28 years on property).

Anthrax

yes, i have heard that other employees are entitled to this pot, but i didn’t hear the numbers that you are talking about, didn’t hear that these employees exceeded pilots by any stretch, and there are numerous legal avenues the company can pursue then in deeming one “whole.” if we sunset this plan, whatever excess that the company was legally required to fund would never be distributed to the pilots, who essentially earned this

pilots before us contributed and we contribute and so it could be argued that we, in previous contracts, negotiated away QOL for an a-fund that would no longer benefit the union body, ergo, we negotiated away QOL for nothing in the long term, not to mention how stupid we’ve been not insisting that this fund mirror IRS limits. and for all you people out there saying that the company can’t afford it, simply look at the billions and billions in stock repurchases that have benefited only a handful of insiders.

Moneybags

No. I understand finance and I’m young (ish). And I don’t want the pension. I’d rather have money in accounts not dependent on the financial health of the company. Also would like to have a retirement that adjusts with inflation and doesn’t take up significant negotiating capital every contract. There’s plenty of pilots here who agree. Most of whom weren’t part of the “brain washing” you suggested.

I can’t believe the obsession with the pension based on their track record. It’s a total of misjudgment if you think it’s risk free.

I understand why someone with less time to retirement wants to see it increase. That’s why I support two separate plans.

The pension will end. Might as well do it now when there’s value to be had instead of letting it to continue to train wreck negotiations for another 25 years.

Cachaco

Are you really that stupid not to be capable of reading our last two extensions? And see we have secured improvements to our flat dollar amounts? Do you even understand the reason behind our flat dollar amount vs FAE (accounting liability on UPS books, again, light years ahead in thinking vs Fedex)? Our IPA has diligently sought defined benefit improvements, and will continue to do so. Yes, our defined benefit just surpassed Fedex because Fedex tops out at 25 years and ours at 30. Agreed. But our IPA has secured gains during our 2 extensions that now surpass Fedex. And our IPA has ZERO plans to abandon our pension. Their main focus is seeking a balance between defined benefit and defined contribution. They have always stated a balance of now vs when retired is extremely important.

And I can say with complete certainty our IPA has zero desire to split the group ever between existing and future pilot groups, unlike Fedex ALPA.

BertMacklinFBI

Cool story. must be a good time to be ups pilot?