Loss of USPS contract…
04-15-2024, 08:28 PM
#221
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 640
the JF dude kicked me out of HIS group during the TA presentations because he was a staunch yes guy and I wasn’t. but I get the premise, and maybe the ethics courses should be mandatory for the execs as well. the argument they use about how our pay should be fair to the shareholders and customers is bogus AF.
04-16-2024, 03:44 AM
#222
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: MD-11 FO
Posts: 2,224
Are layoffs coming? We were told today that as of now we expect to be overstaffed for one year. We were told that international flying will increase and there is ongoing discussion on pushing back retirement date of the MD11 in order to be in a position to secure opportunities that could present themselves. The truth is we still don't know where we are with staffing considering the loss of USPS, much of which was already planned to be pulled back and was accounted for in staffing models. Age 65 retirements are accellerating, attrition to other airlines continues at an indeterminable pace. Layoffs could happen but I don't think that is certain and claiming such is premature.
If we were to furlough, the 777 would be seriously impacted. There were a lot of new hires placed into that fleet. With the amount of work that aircraft does, it would be a huge hinderance to the corporation.
Plus, it already takes 3 forevers to train out a bid. And since they fired half the instructors, it's going to take even longer.
Bottom line, don't let their FUD infultrate you. I've been through 3 different contract negotiantions at 3 different carriers. I've seen this same story so many times, it just makes me laugh.
04-16-2024, 08:14 AM
#223
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,091
Let's get the fine details on the Executive Pension Plan as well, to see how it has steadily improved over the decades.
Why do you think we have the line pilots to management types who never come back to the line? It's the Executive Pension. It's not the schedule.
If they're asking us to effectively take pay cuts with no improvement to our pension, they should be leaders, and lead by example.
04-16-2024, 10:26 AM
#224
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2023
Posts: 404
In my opinion, layoffs (I'm assumiung you mean pilot furloughs) are doubtful.
If we were to furlough, the 777 would be seriously impacted. There were a lot of new hires placed into that fleet. With the amount of work that aircraft does, it would be a huge hinderance to the corporation.
Plus, it already takes 3 forevers to train out a bid. And since they fired half the instructors, it's going to take even longer.
Bottom line, don't let their FUD infultrate you. I've been through 3 different contract negotiantions at 3 different carriers. I've seen this same story so many times, it just makes me laugh.
If we were to furlough, the 777 would be seriously impacted. There were a lot of new hires placed into that fleet. With the amount of work that aircraft does, it would be a huge hinderance to the corporation.
Plus, it already takes 3 forevers to train out a bid. And since they fired half the instructors, it's going to take even longer.
Bottom line, don't let their FUD infultrate you. I've been through 3 different contract negotiantions at 3 different carriers. I've seen this same story so many times, it just makes me laugh.
Of the bottom 120 pilots, only 16 of them are currently on the 777.
A furlough would take us out of 4a2b/c and give the company more scheduling flexibility.
Entry into 4a2c would probably be much more restrictive to the company than a furlough.
There is no restriction for draft or extra flying while pilots are on furlough.
Again, I don't think we will furlough, however, it is always good to have a plan.
04-16-2024, 10:36 AM
#225
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: MD-11/C-17
Posts: 268
IMO furloughed pilots will be lost forever. Hard to imagine anyone accepting a recall down the line. Probably doesn't play into any calculus as it is, but they'd be smart to consider that.
I think a lot of folks would love the opportunity to take a voluntary furlough and go try working elsewhere to see how they like it. A lot of us feel *somewhat* stuck here.
I think a lot of folks would love the opportunity to take a voluntary furlough and go try working elsewhere to see how they like it. A lot of us feel *somewhat* stuck here.
04-16-2024, 11:28 AM
#226
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2023
Posts: 84
However, the polls essentially asked: "Hey pal, would you like some more money in your retirement?"
Not "Do you want us to go all in on increasing the pension, to the detriment of the entire rest of the contract. With many sections not opened despite ongoing grievances? With industry lagging pay? With scope language so vague you can drive an Atlas 747 and ASL 737 through it at the same time? And with every other section that we do decide to open somehow worse?"
Somehow I think the polling results would have been different. I'm at least 57% sure.
04-16-2024, 01:09 PM
#227
Custom User Title
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,271
True.
However, the polls essentially asked: "Hey pal, would you like some more money in your retirement?"
Not "Do you want us to go all in on increasing the pension, to the detriment of the entire rest of the contract. With many sections not opened despite ongoing grievances? With industry lagging pay? With scope language so vague you can drive an Atlas 747 and ASL 737 through it at the same time? And with every other section that we do decide to open somehow worse?"
Somehow I think the polling results would have been different. I'm at least 57% sure.
However, the polls essentially asked: "Hey pal, would you like some more money in your retirement?"
Not "Do you want us to go all in on increasing the pension, to the detriment of the entire rest of the contract. With many sections not opened despite ongoing grievances? With industry lagging pay? With scope language so vague you can drive an Atlas 747 and ASL 737 through it at the same time? And with every other section that we do decide to open somehow worse?"
Somehow I think the polling results would have been different. I'm at least 57% sure.
04-16-2024, 01:19 PM
#228
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 264
Emery furloughed and folded, and a number of other carriers were affected simarily after Fedex snatched the USPS contract from them all in a closed door deal with no outside negotiations allowed. Fedex regaled in the victory of their theft.
What comes around, goes around.
What comes around, goes around.
04-16-2024, 01:30 PM
#229
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,312
Emery furloughed and folded, and a number of other carriers were affected simarily after Fedex snatched the USPS contract from them all in a closed door deal with no outside negotiations allowed. Fedex regaled in the victory of their theft.
What comes around, goes around.
What comes around, goes around.
04-16-2024, 01:32 PM
#230
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 158
IMO furloughed pilots will be lost forever. Hard to imagine anyone accepting a recall down the line. Probably doesn't play into any calculus as it is, but they'd be smart to consider that.
I think a lot of folks would love the opportunity to take a voluntary furlough and go try working elsewhere to see how they like it. A lot of us feel *somewhat* stuck here.
I think a lot of folks would love the opportunity to take a voluntary furlough and go try working elsewhere to see how they like it. A lot of us feel *somewhat* stuck here.
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